Varget vs. VV-N 140 for F Class TR

[Marksman63]

What’s your preference and why?

 

[BP1]

N150..because I have a crap load of it and it works..between the ones you asked about I would go with varget because it just works well in a lot of calibers especially the 308&223 F/TR calibers.

 

[watercam]

N150 for F-TR as it would be better with the heavier bullets used in that discipline.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

N150 is a terrible powder for all applications and should never be used. Stick with Varget.

Seriously though, I'm a huge fan of N150. With my reamer/barrels its routinely better than everything else I try.

I have had luck with N140 in one barrel, but it wanted to be run pretty hot.

Lots of folks have had great luck with Varget; probably the most commonly powder used in F-T/R.

 

[big john 5394]

#1n150#2n140 #3varget

 

[Ned Ludd]

I can only directly address the Varget vs N140 question from personal experience in a .223 Rem F-TR rifle shooting Berger 90 VLDs. In my hands, N140 delivers slightly less velocity than Varget, and that comes at even higher pressure. For those running 90 VLDs on the "high node" (~2840-2850 fps from a 30" barrel), brass life is already a problem, so higher pressure is not desirable. N140 should be fine for shooters that load to the next slower node. Precision/grouping between Varget and N140 was comparable. However, in a .223 with heavies, neither of these two powders provides the same precision for me as H4895, not even close. I have yet to find a powder that is better overall than H4895 for that particular application.

In a .308 Win with 200+ gr bullets, Varget is still probably the "go to" powder for a majority of F-TR shooters, although N150 has gained ground in the last couple years or so. With my [limited] experience using N140 in the .223 Rem, my impression is that I'm really not sure why anyone would choose it over Varget or N150 in a .308 with 200+ gr bullets. Perhaps N140 would shine in a slightly different application, such as with lighter weight .30 cal bullets, but I probably wouldn't initially start testing with it over Varget or N150.

Alternatively, if you already happen to have some N140 on hand, it's certainly not going to hurt to do some preliminary testing with it. Some shooters have reported success using it in .308 Win loads, so it's not like an acceptable load can't be tuned with it. However, with its slightly faster burn rate as compared to Varget or N150, it's just not the powder I would reach for first when starting load development with 200+ gr bullets in a .308 Win. Likewise, there are a few F-TR shooters that very successfully load heavy bullets using H4895, but for me personally, it's just a little too fast for that application. At the end of the day, only direct testing in your specific setup can truly reveal how well a given powder works for a certain application.

 

[LVLAaron]

What's the temp stability of n140/n150 compared to Varget?

 

[BP1]

What's the temp stability of n140/n150 compared to Varget?

Equal if not better..I think N150 is one of Vits most temp stable powders.

 

[LVLAaron]

Equal if not better..I think N150 is one of Vits most temp stable powders.

Cool. I have 10lbs of Varget left with a pickup truck load of n150 on the shelf I planned on switching to.

 

[BP1]

Cool. I have 10lbs of Varget left with a pickup truck load of n150 on the shelf I planned on switching to.

You won’t be disappointed..good luck

 

[1911mag]

I use N150 for 90’s and have used Varget. I prefer N150. So on other side I have a .223 with H4895 running 88.5’s that is outperforming 90’s.

 

[MikeMcCasland]

What's the temp stability of n140/n150 compared to Varget?

My current N150 load (Lot 22.03.2015) is 44.7gr behind a 200.20x. It's a .180fb chamber. ~.021 off.

I developed it in ~35 degree temps last year, and have shot it all summer here in Texas this year. It gave me about ~40-50fps more when it's 90-100 outside, but it's as accurate & stable as it ever was.

I was scared to death about it's temp stability because I'd developed it last year and was running it into March when temps were still cool, then COVID hits and everything is shut down. Next time I shot it was a match in May and suddenly it was 95 outside. I was a little concerned in those first few sighters lol.

 

[avidflyer]

My current N150 load (Lot 22.03.2015) is 44.7gr behind a 200.20x. It's a .180fb chamber. ~.021 off.

I developed it in ~35 degree temps last year, and have shot it all summer here in Texas this year. It gave me about ~40-50fps more when it's 90-100 outside, but it's as accurate & stable as it ever was.

I was scared to death about it's temp stability because I'd developed it last year and was running it into March when temps were still cool, then COVID hits and everything is shut down. Next time I shot it was a match in May and suddenly it was 95 outside. I was a little concerned in those first few sighters lol.

How fast is that load? 44.1 gets me 2635-2650 with a 200x

 

[MikeMcCasland]

How fast is that load? 44.1 gets me 2635-2650 with a 200x

2615 @ 38deg out of a 28" (CCI 400)
2650 @ 95deg out of a 28" (CCI 400)
2660 @ 95deg out of a 30" (GM205M)

All with the 20X & palma brass.

Edit: You're not the first person who's told me my load is higher than they expected in terms of charge weight. I think it's just a difference in lots, because mine is definitely parked in the middle of a wide node 44.6-44.8. I've heard 44.1-44.5 works with several N150 lots, but this just happens to work in mine. Maybe something to do with my reamer, I can't really explain it.

 

[avidflyer]

2615 @ 38deg out of a 28" (CCI 400)
2650 @ 95deg out of a 28" (CCI 400)
2660 @ 95deg out of a 30" (GM205M)

All with the 20X & palma brass.

Edit: You're not the first person who's told me my load is higher than they expected in terms of charge weight. I think it's just a difference in lots, because mine is definitely parked in the middle of a wide node 44.6-44.8. I've heard 44.1-44.5 works with several N150 lots, but this just happens to work in mine. Maybe something to do with my reamer, I can't really explain it.

we're shooting the same lot, Jade had about 20 lbs left of that lot also last time I spoke with him. Sure reamer and barrel have effects

 

[Monte F]

Asking for a friend, where should he start with N150 and juggernauts? Lapua LRP brass and BR2 or GM210M. He has been using 42.5gn Varget with BR2 and can occasionally shoot HM scores at 1000yd.

 

[LVLAaron]

Asking for a friend, where should he start with N150 and juggernauts? Lapua LRP brass and BR2 or GM210M. He has been using 42.5gn Varget with BR2 and can occasionally shoot HM scores at 1000yd.

QL Says that's ~2650fps w/ varget.
QL also sayeth 44.7 n150 gets you the same 2650