Using Target Bullets on Game....

[JTEX]

I have shot a whole pile of game in the North America and Africa with Berger VLD hunting bullets. 168 and 180 grains out of my 7RM. From Giraffe to steenbok in Africa and elk to feral hog in the US.

I will keep using them as long as they keep making them, very accurate in my rifle and devastating on game.

 

[3Ackleys]

My question is why use target bullets to kill when they make bullets specifically designed to kill? I use Nosler BT's and Partitions and they have never let me down. Head shot, neck shot, shoulder shot. It never mattered much. But then again I'm a firm believer in the Ruark school of "Use Enough Gun". A 5.56 is a great varmint round (for thin-skinned 4 legged and 2 legged varmints) but for deer I would recommend 6mm (.243) or larger.

So how do they make "bullets specifically designed to kill"?

Well according to Berger, their "hunting" bullets were at one time their match bullets. After reports of them working well for hunting, Berger started putting them in boxes with "hunting" on the label. No "design" whatsoever.

 

[Orr89rocz]

I’ve never seen one of these threads produce much of anything but arguments!…target bullets are not designed to be hunting bullets , they have thin jackets and come apart! Will the kill?…. Of course!… Nosler partitions are hunting bullets and work as they should but would you use them at 1000 yards?… then we get into what is ethical ….. next thing you know it’s a all out war on the key board!…I have killed and wounded game with both types bullets. I have used a lot of Berger hunting bullets but when you get right down to it there not really what I think is a true hunting bullet.
I think maybe the best of both worlds would be a Nosler Accubond .
Wayne

What is a hunting bullet? What does it do specifically?

 

[Bc'z]

What is a hunting bullet? What does it do specifically?

Great questions...
Last question 1st,
It Kills with devastating effect.
So why don't we use FMJ on game yet are common place in military applications?
Finally a hunting bullet is whichever I feel comfortable with for the quary in question.
This year I feel like trying 140gr Barnes ttsx.

 

[D-4297]

Bullet placement is still key , regardless of what round is used . I dropped a very nice Elk at about 360 yards , using a Berger 200.20X out of a Kelby .308 , 30" - 1-10 . The Elk took one step , looked in my direction , and went down in a heap . Shot was through & through . Lung , Heart , Lung and out . A "Ethical" shot is one the shooter has no qualms about taking when they KNOW it is within their skill level to make .

 

[WSnyder]

target bullets are not designed to be hunting bullets , they have thin jackets and come apart!

Grenades? Well grenades come apart explosively and boy do they kill for sure. It should be an old wives tale by now that a hunting bullet has to stay together to be effective. Some smaller caliber Match Kings don't expand at all in game so you got me there though. 30 cal Match Kings work fantastic and don't grenade. TMK's, ELD-M's, VLD's, and many other grenades do work fantastic on game.

 

[TTE]

It should be an old wives tale by now that a hunting bullet has to stay together to be effective.

Depends on what you're hunting

 

[diggler1833]

You'll get a lot of anecdotal evidence one way or another here, and that is based off small sample sizes. I've had bullets that I started testing in hogs or coyotes perform fantastically for the first 5-10 animals...then magically everything seems to come apart as the law of averages rears its ugly head.

I don't spend much time here, but I share some of my critter kills on other sites.

What I have found *from my experience* is that match bullets can be devastating one time, and pathetic the next. The OTM/BTHP match bullets have made some of the largest exit wounds I've ever seen...and then the very next animal it just pencils through (no bone hit, and the bullet didn't end-around, disrupt, and fragment). A lot depends on what is hit, and how much tissue the bullet has to penetrate before it exits. Way too much unpredictability for me.

My only exception is the ELD-M on smaller stuff, like coyotes. Even then, I get very mixed results as far as penetration goes. I might get full penetration and exit lengthwise on one dog, and then no exit on a quartering shot the next.

By and large though, if you put the bullet where it needs to be the animal will expire relatively quickly. However, after having coyotes take SMKs and Scenars to the boiler room and run off to die...I’ve given up on them. Fortunately I've found the carcasses later, but there is no reason why a well placed shot should allow an animal to run 200 yards or still be gasping for air 60 seconds kater.

 

[Ryan66]

These two articles with YouTube videos are worth a look and are comparing ELDM vs ELDX.

Match -vs- Hunting bullets Head-To-Head (6.5 Creedmoor) – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

Hunting -vs- Match Bullets Part 2: Down-Range Velocity – Ultimate Reloader

ultimatereloader.com

 

[kyotekiller25]

I've used heavy for caliber target bullets like the SMK, VLD, AMAX, and ELDM in 28/30/33 cal over the last 25 years to take quite a few muleys, whitetails, black bear, and elk from 100-1150 yards. They all did their job as long as I did mine. Shot placement is key. They are not bone crushing bullets up close, but perform beautifully at 500+ when their impact velocity has slowed down a bit.

 

[bozo699]

What is a hunting bullet? What does it do specifically?

Idk?…. What’s a target bullet?…. What does it specifically do?…..
Wayne

 

[Wild Bill IV]

I prefer the good old hunting bullets with thicker jackets or taper cupping!!! The hunting bullets are not long thin nosed bullets that can deflect easily by grazing a rib or shoulder bone. I prefer the spitzer BT profiles!! They are designed for a controlled expansion that hammers the animal, creates hydrostatic shock and knocks animals on their A$$ES! All my big game animals were knocked down dead before hitting the ground!! And all were one shot kills from 250 to 600!! When I'm in the field, I only have 3 rounds in shirt pocket staying warm!!! 1 round for me, the other 2 to backup my other two brothers!!!!

My trophy typical whitetail buck was plus 300lb, 3x3 with a 26 inside spread, with only one 6.5in brow tine!! Mean and dominate with that one tine and one point tips not broken!! Rolled him dead at 275!!! He was too easy to get while he was chasing a doe in heat!!! Only one thing was on his mind!!!

If an animal lives for more than a few seconds, the muscle tissue can be tainted with adrenaline!!! I had version from the dad in law where the deer ran 50 yards and nosed planted and another twice shot deer!!! Terrible tasting venison compared to the meat from my dead on impact kills!!!

By the way, there is something to be said about the Sierra Gamekings!! Most of the Spitzer Boat Tail bullets increase in BC down range meaning drag is reduced as it slows down!! While their Matchkings decrease in BC which is more drag as velocity drops!!!! The GKs will start hitting higher and higher on the target than the MKs as distance increases!!!

 

[Orr89rocz]

Idk?…. What’s a target bullet?…. What does it specifically do?…..
Wayne

Exactly. So how can anyone draw a conclusion on what is or isnt good for hunting or target for that matter? I think those questions need answered before drawing a conclusion and making a definitive statement

 

[dryhumor]

Bob Cauterucio mentioned to me once that hunters really loved his VLDs. Coming from a bullet maker, that’s pretty good feedback.

There’s another thread on the web concerning Lapua Scenars. The Scenars seem to have a good following among hunters.

Hunter solid copper bullets have good reviews, though not a tremendous amount. The make both hunting and target bullets in solid copper. Slight differences between the two.

I think as bullet design has progressed through the years, bullets have become more optimized for whatever endeavor is being pursued. A true designed hunting bullet likely has an edge over a target bullet on a marginal shot.

 

[Orr89rocz]

I think as bullet design has progressed through the years, bullets have become more optimized for whatever endeavor is being pursued. A true designed hunting bullet likely has an edge over a target bullet on a marginal shot.

See idk about that. It depends on what the bullet does imo. But what is a hunting bullet being designed to do? To expand/mushroom and stay together? Designed to create multiple wound channels via fragmentation or shedding of pedals?

What is a target bullet doing that makes it target? That its shaped to shoot as accurate as possible? High bc? Does it have thick jackets? Solid designs, non expanding/ non fragmenting? The one main thing i would classify as target is just very tight tolerances on bullet manufacturing, so that each bullet is as close to being identical in dimension to ensure shot to shot consistency which usually makes them more expensive. But hunting bullets could also be held to those tight tolerances.

To me if a bullet kills by inflicting massive damage to tissue to cause hemorrhaging or shock to the nervous system, then there are a few ways to do this. Large diameter holes from big calibers, fast smaller bullets that expand or mushroom to cause a bigger hole and cavitation from velocity impact, or bullets that come apart to generate multiple wound channels. And those also can be fast to cause cavitation in tissue but not always.

If you want instant kills then we should be taking brain shots, and that would make any bullet that could penetrate a skull plate a hunting bullet.

I dont care if the bullets box says hunting or target/match….if its consistently doing the above, and inflicting sufficient damage when placed in proper location on the animals body then im gonna use it. The construction of the bullet and method it uses to kill should be picked based on the situation you are in. Small light game that doesnt need alot of penetration can get away with bullets that come apart. Unless you hunt in thick areas and need to ensure complete pass thrus for best chance at a blood trail, maybe a tougher expanding bullet is used. Cape buffalo will need a tough bullet that penetrates feet of flesh lol solids are often used as follow up shots, and they just pencil through and are very effective. But a solid on a deer may not be as effective as other styles. So imo its all situational.

 

[Doug Casner]

Killed coyotes with .22 cal. hps. out of a swift at 37 or 3800 . I know they blew up. Killed the coyote dead. Like someone said , It depends on the game. Wouldnt try em on deer. Doug

 

[CharlieNC]

Look at Terminal Ballistics website for good info, or better yet purchase one of their books. A detailed assessment of cartridges and bullet makes is based on thousands of autopsy and compared to the anatomy of killing. The book costs less than a box of crummy ammo that Joe blow who hunted once will recommend.

 

[SeabeeKen]

As a hunter, I've learned that bullet placement is always king. But recently I was reading a long thread on another forum about using target bullets on game. The back & forth was lively & heated. I have no practical experience, so did not throw in my 2-cents. But it did get me to wondering...

Has there ever been any testing done shooting popular target bullets into gel blocks to see performance?

Gel isnt game. I shot a white tail deer back in the 70's with a 168 gr matchking from my 7mm rem mag. and it penciled straight through. I'll never do it again. Cant imagine why anyone would do it with such excellent game bullets out there

 

[kujuak]

I hunt for spiritual reasons which include harvesting quality meat.I do not judge why others kill animals. I want a bullet that kills reliably in all hunting conditions I may face. Killing a moose or elk with a rain soaked hide shot from an awkward angle after a taxing stalk. Max range 500-600yds, usual range 300yds or (much) less.Where I hunt grizzly bears also hang out, are protected, habituated to gun shots=gut pile=dinner bell. I don't need submoa accuracy. I do need penetration, a modicum of expansion,no risk of over rapid expansion producing shallow wounds, ability to break bones of an interior grizzly. These are not the same parameters of a whitetail hunter in the CONUS. I don't trust a target bullet to meet those criteria. I like Nosler Partition, Swift A Frame,North Fork and even Core-Lokt. I use my Bergers for fun

 

[Rsadams]

I hunt for spiritual reasons which include harvesting quality meat.I do not judge why others kill animals. I want a bullet that kills reliably in all hunting conditions I may face. Killing a moose or elk with a rain soaked hide shot from an awkward angle after a taxing stalk. Max range 500-600yds, usual range 300yds or (much) less.Where I hunt grizzly bears also hang out, are protected, habituated to gun shots=gut pile=dinner bell. I don't need submoa accuracy. I do need penetration, a modicum of expansion,no risk of over rapid expansion producing shallow wounds, ability to break bones of an interior grizzly. These are not the same parameters of a whitetail hunter in the CONUS. I don't trust a target bullet to meet those criteria. I like Nosler Partition, Swift A Frame,North Fork and even Core-Lokt. I use my Bergers for fun

Those core loct bullets have killed a ton of deer here in south and central Texas.... We don't shoot normally over 200 yards , most around 100 or even less... They definitely are not a target bullet but they knock these small white tails down no problem...