Upgrade coming for March scopes

[Willow]

I haven't seen it posted anywhere here so I don't know who is aware and who isn't, but March scopes have an upgrade coming to their long range scopes later this year consisting of a glass/coating upgrade.

Prototypes are out there but basically the 5-50x56, 10-60x52 and 8-80x56 will all have fluorite lens technology incorporated, increasing resolution and clarity. March are claiming 4K clarity and are calling these scopes "High Master". There will be a price hike over the current models, probably by a couple of hundred dollars.

Not much else known at the moment but these will hopefully be available mid-year. Given how clear March scopes currently are, I can only assume the guys at Deon Optics have managed to come up with something special.

I hope to buy one of these as soon as they are available in Australia.

 

[aussiepowderburner]

I suggest you make a very objective assessment side by side with other popular scopes such as NF Comp II before you outlay $ on an Internet marketing scheme!
Speaking from experience having owned 3 Marches and used 2 others.

 

[1shot]

I have a 10-60x52 and I find it hard to believe that there is a marketed improvement on my current system. Last week was the 1st time I had to remove the light limiting disc on a totally overcast Ohio day. Very good glass indeed!
Lloyd

 

[Willow]

It will be interesting to see if there is any difference.

I suggest you make a very objective assessment side by side with other popular scopes such as NF Comp II before you outlay $ on an Internet marketing scheme!
Speaking from experience having owned 3 Marches and used 2 others.

I have owned a 5-40x56 previously and had no complaints with that scope. I don't see March as being an internet marketing scheme. I'm not sold on the NF Comp, several friends own them but I'm just not sold on them. I have no idea how this glass upgrade will turn out but March don't roll out updates willy nilly given they are a small company so I'm assuming there must be some benefit to this. Time will tell.

 

[aussiepowderburner]

Well Willow,
If you are going to the NRAA Queens in Belmont in June we can discuss it further?!
March is an Internet marketing product period. They are overpriced.
Paying top dollar doesn't guarantee you get the best.
If you shoot highly defined targets in reasonably light as we all do in F class then you won't criticise March optics.
But compare the mirage detail, and separately clarity at 1000 yards and truthfully assess the results.
Not on an F class target - try looking at a rabbit at 1000 yards and compare.
I note that you say you owned a March previously? So not currently?
And why not now?

 

[Willow]

Well Willow,
If you are going to the NRAA Queens in Belmont in June we can discuss it further?!
March is an Internet marketing product period. They are overpriced.
Paying top dollar doesn't guarantee you get the best.
If you shoot highly defined targets in reasonably light as we all do in F class then you won't criticise March optics.
But compare the mirage detail, and separately clarity at 1000 yards and truthfully assess the results.
Not on an F class target - try looking at a rabbit at 1000 yards and compare.
I note that you say you owned a March previously? So not currently?
And why not now?

Won't be at Belmont, can't make it up there but I will be at Malabar later this year. I sold my March to fund an S&B 3-20 Ultrashort as I wanted something nice and compact for a tactical rifle I was building. As for March being overpriced, I guess it's all relative to how much one can afford. I look at the S&B 5-45x56 High Power which is $6400 and consider March to be somewhat of a bargain in comparison.

You have a dislike for March which is fine, it may just be that they have improved their scopes with this glass upgrade. I'm merely informing people of it, no need to shoot the messenger. People in this game will make up their own mind as to whether it's worth the price of admission.

 

[JimPag]

I'm sure Shiraz will give us the low down once there out.

 

[JRS]

Durability could be an issue with the fluorite lenses.

 

[Willow]

Durability could be an issue with the fluorite lenses.

What are the pitfalls associated with this?

 

[JRS]

What are the pitfalls associated with this?

The glass cracking.

 

[Willow]

Don't expect this glass upgrade to appear before 2017, that's the latest I have heard from the Australian distributor. Apparently there's a new benchrest model in the works too.

 

[Shiraz]

The glass cracking.

I have several Kowa Spotting scopes with fluoride glass and never even heard of cracking because of fluoride coating.

The Japanese know how to make optics really well.
.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

There is a little bit of confusion in the terms used above. If I read the OP properly, March will be using fluorine coating on lenses. Note how I spelled it, fluorine coating.

Fluorite glass (CaF2) is used to correct chromatic aberration in lenses, however, as was indicated earlier this type of glass is fragile and very difficult to make. It does make for very light lenses compare to other glass. It has since been supplanted with ED (extra-low dispersion) glass which is also used to correct chromatic aberration. The March-X scopes already have ED glass, so I would think it's unlikely that Deon would go back to fluorite glass, but who knows?

I really think we are talking about fluorine coating. This coating is used to repels dust, water droplets, grease or dirt, ensuring easy removal even when they adhere to the lens surface. In other words it protects the lens and makes it easy to keep it clean.

I seriously doubt it will increase clarity and resolution, unless your lenses are usually dirty.

 

[Willow]

There is a little bit of confusion in the terms used above. If I read the OP properly, March will be using fluorine coating on lenses. Note how I spelled it, fluorine coating.

Fluorite glass (CaF2) is used to correct chromatic aberration in lenses, however, as was indicated earlier this type of glass is fragile and very difficult to make. It does make for very light lenses compare to other glass. It has since been supplanted with ED (extra-low dispersion) glass which is also used to correct chromatic aberration. The March-X scopes already have ED glass, so I would think it's unlikely that Deon would go back to fluorite glass, but who knows?

I really think we are talking about fluorine coating. This coating is used to repels dust, water droplets, grease or dirt, ensuring easy removal even when they adhere to the lens surface. In other words it protects the lens and makes it easy to keep it clean.

I seriously doubt it will increase clarity and resolution, unless your lenses are usually dirty.

I'm just going by what they have posted on the UK website (which isn't much but clearly mentions flourite):

https://www.marchscopes.co.uk/5x-50x56-moa-march-scope.html#selectyourscope

Apparently Deon hired some university graduates who were doing some cutting edge research into optics and this is where the glass "upgrade" comes into it. I'm no expert on this, but apparently the demo version at IWA 2016 was impressive and Deon reckon they can improve upon the prototype so this will filter its way into the 10-60x52, 5-50x56 and 8-80x56 from next year.

 

[JRS]

I have several Kowa Spotting scopes with fluoride glass and never even heard of cracking because of fluoride coating.

The Japanese know how to make optics really well.
.

I wasn't referencing the fluorite (fluorine) coating, Shiraz. I have a few (pricey) Canon camera lenses that contain Fluorite elements (lens). When the OP mentioned Fluorite lens technology, I assumed he was referencing the lens, rather than coating. Sorry!

Canon is a renowned expert is the use of Fluorite elements. They also grow their own synthetic crystals and have been producing the lenses' since 1969.

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

I'm just going by what they have posted on the UK website (which isn't much but clearly mentions flourite):

https://www.marchscopes.co.uk/5x-50x56-moa-march-scope.html#selectyourscope

Apparently Deon hired some university graduates who were doing some cutting edge research into optics and this is where the glass "upgrade" comes into it. I'm no expert on this, but apparently the demo version at IWA 2016 was impressive and Deon reckon they can improve upon the prototype so this will filter its way into the 10-60x52, 5-50x56 and 8-80x56 from next year.

Yes, it does mention fluorite lens technology. Thank you, Willow.
(ETA: I'm a little suspect of a "optics" site that uses the word "RETICAL" instead of the proper spelling "RETICLE". I did a very quick Internet search and RETICAL is not in any version of the Scrabble dictionaries, including the UK version.)

To the discussion:

There is no such thing as fluorite coating, the coating is fluorine coating and it has nothing to do with clarity or resolution; it's protection only.

Fluorite lenses are not new, they have been used in camera lenses and spotting scopes for a while now. As I explained earlier, there are two main features with fluorite lenses; chromatic aberration "prevention" and light weight. These lenses are difficult to make, but like anything else in technology, processes mature and what was once difficult becomes mainstream over time.

I believe ED glass is more recent than fluorite glass and it has the chromatic aberration "prevention" but it is the same weight as non-fluorite glass. Please understand that in a lens with several elements and groups, there will usually only be one lens that is ED (and that's usually not the objective lens,) as that is all that is needed to cure or at least minimize chromatic aberration. I do not know if fluorite lens technology would be the same way, but I have no reason to think it would be different. But then again, I could be wrong; fluorite lenses technology could be used for several or all elements in a riflescope or camera lens. This could also represent a significant weight saving, maybe 10-20% of the weight of the lens material.

 

[JRS]

With all things being equal between the two (which they aren't), Fluorite has a much higher light transmission than ED glass due to the zero scatter within Fluorite. Nikon did a great job when marketing the ED glass using the "manufacturers speak".

BTW: Nikon uses Fluorite elements in 7 of their high-end lenses. A bit of backpedaling.

 

[DeltaBravo]

I found this interesting about fluorite lenses:

www.dpreview.com/forums/post/9952054

Dennis

 

[Turbulent Turtle]

Yeah, I've seen several references about fluorite being brittle and fragile. They work really well in camera lenses and spotting scope, not quite sure how they will stand up to abuse as riflescopes.

As for JRS's contention that fluorite glass has "much higher" light transmission than ED glass, I question the use of the word "much". When light transmission is at 92% or 95%, I don't see where "much higher" fits in.

The thing is, with riflescopes we are always having to do with the size of the lenses, or rather, the lack of size, because if there's one thing that will transmit more light, it's a bigger lens and riflescopes can only be so big and with having the inner tube move around so as to be able to adjust the reticle, we are really debating the number of angels dancing on the head of a pin here.

What I have seen more recently is people putting in light reducers on their riflescopes to increase the F-stop number and get a larger depth of field. That kind flies in the face of needing more light being transmitted, doesn't it? Why not just screw on an ND-2 or ND-3 filter instead.

So yes, bring on the innovation; let's see how this fluorite lens works out in a riflescope.

 

[Shiraz]

We had a March booth at the NRA show that ended today in Louisville, KY, and someone asked us about "rect-icals".

We almost responded with "Sir - we do not have scopes for that" . Seriously though, we knew what he meant and he was very impressed with the glass.