UPDATE--What Power Scope for 223 Varmint Gun?
- Thread starter sw282
- Start date
Varmint guns IMHO need a bit more magnification because you're trying to "aim small". How much magnification depends on how far away you need to be able to "aim small" and also how good the glass is. There are a lot of inexpensive high-magnification scopes out there that are useless in the upper magnification range while at the same time a scope with excellent glass can be surprisingly useful at lower magnification.
For example, my cheap 12X SWFA will let me spot 223 bullet holes at 100y with my forty something eyesight, astigmatisms and all. My cheap Nikon 2-7 can't do that at 50y. So despite having more magnification relative to the range, the Nikon doesn't resolve as well as the SWFA does.
So unless you are willing to invest what it takes to get reasonably good glass, there's very little point in venturing beyond 15-20x on the top end.
I find 12x-15x to be a real sweet spot on the top end if the reticle is reasonably fine and the glass reasonably good. (The SWFAs are passable because they are simple fixed power scopes that make it much cheaper to get reasonable optical performance). For a variable, I'd think you'd be in the Vortex PST range or better.
The jump from 15x to 25x isn't as useful as you might think. It's not even twice as much magnification as the 15x. It takes big jumps to make a big difference.
For example, my cheap 12X SWFA will let me spot 223 bullet holes at 100y with my forty something eyesight, astigmatisms and all. My cheap Nikon 2-7 can't do that at 50y. So despite having more magnification relative to the range, the Nikon doesn't resolve as well as the SWFA does.
So unless you are willing to invest what it takes to get reasonably good glass, there's very little point in venturing beyond 15-20x on the top end.
I find 12x-15x to be a real sweet spot on the top end if the reticle is reasonably fine and the glass reasonably good. (The SWFAs are passable because they are simple fixed power scopes that make it much cheaper to get reasonable optical performance). For a variable, I'd think you'd be in the Vortex PST range or better.
The jump from 15x to 25x isn't as useful as you might think. It's not even twice as much magnification as the 15x. It takes big jumps to make a big difference.
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
3-9 with BDC ret works here
TheOtherZilla
Pull my finger
Maybe doesn't require it but I do it anyway..
With all the varmint/target scopes I've ever used I had found that my average shooting zoom is 10-12 power, so over time I went to a 14 or 18 power at the top end. Usually I'm shooting in the 200-400 yard max range on pdogs, so for me there is no reason for a 24x or higher top end magnification, if I do shoot to 600 yards for me 14-18x does a very good job.
I learned this year a 1 MOA DOT in a FFP Scope zoomed in would cover the entire P-Dog at 400 yards. So I would advice getting a very nice clean thin cross hair.
Cemetery21
NRA Life since 1975
When we shot SD and NE, we could use 16 - 20 at the top end and see fine in the rolling sand hills. When we started shooting NM high desert, 12x was max for most of the day due to mirage on the flat land, so we mostly ran 4.5-14 scopes. I like to run everything at the same power (4 or 5 rifles) since I don't lazer range dogs and I can guestimate distance better if I'm always looking at the same magnification. I once had a straight 24x on one rifle and could not hit crap because I guessed them too close. By the time I adjusted, it was time to switch guns again.
Last edited:
There was a time when that was standard practice. Today, having to tap the scope is the sign of a defective (or cheap) scope.
drags
Silver $$ Contributor
There was a fellow at our club that did that all the time and he had more trouble with his scopes than anyone at our club.
Drags
sw282
Silver $$ Contributor
My 3.5-10x40 VX3 was great to app 250yds shooting my 221FB @PDS yesterday in TX... Anything past that l needed more scope... Sighting in l could see the boolit holes @100yds...
My ''first-time'' shooting buddy had a ''confirmed'' kill @553yds yesterday... He was shooting my old Win Model 70 Coyote in 223Rem. Scope is a 15 year old 6-18VX2 fine duplex. He said the hit was good enough for him to see RED.
Ammo was factory Fiocchi with 55gr VMAX
My ''first-time'' shooting buddy had a ''confirmed'' kill @553yds yesterday... He was shooting my old Win Model 70 Coyote in 223Rem. Scope is a 15 year old 6-18VX2 fine duplex. He said the hit was good enough for him to see RED.
Ammo was factory Fiocchi with 55gr VMAX
I believe that's an old school concept, I haven't seen a new scope require that in 25 years and if it does get it repaired.
I shoot crows and chucks, I prefer head shots on chucks, I really only discuss 1 shot kill hunting. I miss plenty, so I discuss it more than achieve it, I get follow up shots some times.
Estimation of range, angle of shot and wind across terraced farm fields in my opinion limit the 223 to 350 yards for varmints. This isn't bench rest shooting.
I shoot a Howa 1500 with a 22" heavy barrel, bedded to a laminated stock. Calm days 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards, with custom loads. The scope is a 50mm 6.5 x 20 with a 30mm tube, I rarely use it above 12 power.
Estimation of range, angle of shot and wind across terraced farm fields in my opinion limit the 223 to 350 yards for varmints. This isn't bench rest shooting.
I shoot a Howa 1500 with a 22" heavy barrel, bedded to a laminated stock. Calm days 1 1/8" groups at 300 yards, with custom loads. The scope is a 50mm 6.5 x 20 with a 30mm tube, I rarely use it above 12 power.
Over the years I have used scopes from 3.5-10 up through 6.5-20. My most used rifles now have 3.5-15's and 5.5-22's on them. Some afternoons I have to turn the power down a little. The guys that I go with use about the same thing. Variable powers up to about 20X and about every brand available.
I remember years ago seeing guys at the range pecking on scopes after making adjustments. I had one fairly high end scope that had a one shot delay in the adjustments. You had to have a pretty accurate rifle to notice it. But the first shot after an adjustment would be about the diameter of a bullet hole out of the group. Pecking on it might have solved that problem but the scope is gone now.
I remember years ago seeing guys at the range pecking on scopes after making adjustments. I had one fairly high end scope that had a one shot delay in the adjustments. You had to have a pretty accurate rifle to notice it. But the first shot after an adjustment would be about the diameter of a bullet hole out of the group. Pecking on it might have solved that problem but the scope is gone now.
Last edited:
RegionRat
Gold $$ Contributor
I have really come to prefer the variables with FFP and a fairly simple reticle for azimuth and elevation holds.
The SWFA and NightForce variables have been very reliable for me. The only problem with this is that SWFA didn’t make many of their variables this year. NightForce added the NX8 4X-32X and it has been excellent.
Much of the time, I find myself sitting a rookie on one of my rigs. Being able to teach them on MOA scopes using typical inch grid paper targets helps when we get to the field and I give them wind holds in MOA or inches.
The fact that many scope are now only offered in milliradians means you may have no choice. It only affects paper targets and is arbitrary once you have your dope, but I know that rookies have learned faster for me on MOA when it comes to small targets.
Being able to locate a prairie dog in a busy field is as difficult for rookies as the shooting. The variable can be dialed down to help with walking them into the right target. If the scope has a power lever, I will generally recommend mounting it. A bubble level is also a good thing to add.
Many people get turned off when I tell them what an NXS or NX8 costs and I can understand their issues. That is another reason the SWFA variable will be missed since it was about 1/3rd the cost and worked very well.
The SWFA and NightForce variables have been very reliable for me. The only problem with this is that SWFA didn’t make many of their variables this year. NightForce added the NX8 4X-32X and it has been excellent.
Much of the time, I find myself sitting a rookie on one of my rigs. Being able to teach them on MOA scopes using typical inch grid paper targets helps when we get to the field and I give them wind holds in MOA or inches.
The fact that many scope are now only offered in milliradians means you may have no choice. It only affects paper targets and is arbitrary once you have your dope, but I know that rookies have learned faster for me on MOA when it comes to small targets.
Being able to locate a prairie dog in a busy field is as difficult for rookies as the shooting. The variable can be dialed down to help with walking them into the right target. If the scope has a power lever, I will generally recommend mounting it. A bubble level is also a good thing to add.
Many people get turned off when I tell them what an NXS or NX8 costs and I can understand their issues. That is another reason the SWFA variable will be missed since it was about 1/3rd the cost and worked very well.
Best scopes I have ever had are the old Leupold 6.5-20x40 EFR target scopes. They are super sharp and very durable/reliable plus you can pick them up used for about $550 +/-. Next most favorite is the 6.5-20x50 LR 30mm scopes. For some reason I just don't like the 8.5-25 scopes near as much, though I have several. Another really good scope is the old Burris Black Diamond in either 6-24x50 or 8-32x50. I have a few European scopes that are super sharp but the cost sends me back to the old Leupolds. Like everybody has said, for the most part you won't use more than about 12x shooting PD's unless conditions are good and the dogs are really out there. It's all fun!
sw282
Silver $$ Contributor
Found a pristine 40X in 222 Rem Magnum recently. Then l stuck a Leupold 12X AO w/target knobs, fine crosshairs & dot. With THIS particular scope l can see 22cal holes @100yds! The gun is totally STOCK Remington. That long 27'' barrel allowed me to shoot 4037fps, verified by Jarrett's chrono on their range.http://forum.accurateshooter.com/threads/what-power-scpoe-for-223-varmint-gun.3950860/
l posted the first thread two years ago. Experience, opinions, and choices have CHANGED since 2018.
MY 22 caliber holes are easier to see with a 6.5-20 than a 3.5-10 or a 4.5-14 scope at 100 yards!!
My 223 Rem Varmint Gun now has a 6.5-20X40 VXIII. The 30mm tube resembles a Big Screen tv after looking thru 1inch tubes all these yrs. The Fine Duplex reticle helps too. After a June2018 trip to New Mexico a 22-250 came to live with me. A 6.5-20 vxiii is on it too. My little 221FB still has the 3.5-10vxiii... That could change shortly, for l found an 8.5-25x50vxiii that's looking for a new HOME
Load was for 30gr BERGER Varmint bullets from Berger's manual.
kyotekiller25
Silver $$ Contributor
I like the variables up to 20-25x the best.
Upgrades & Donations
This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.
Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.
You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.
To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.