Update:My new Dasher load workup

[40X Guy]

Just got back from the range with these results in my new 6 Dasher. OCW test at 100 yards with RL-15, 450 primers, and Berger 105 Hybrids @ .010 off the lands. 33.1 looks real good along with 33.5 grains. But i am wondering why velocity went down from 33.3 to 33.5, and also from 32.5 to 32.7? Chroneyed with my trusty 35P Oehler. And am I lacking in velocity a bit? 30 inch 8 twist Broughton 5C barrel, .268 neck on a Nesika K action. No pressure whatsoever @ 33.5 but temp was only around 40 degrees. Shot round robin and 18 rounds fired. I got a little help from Johara on initial load and i am liking what i am seeing so far. But the velocity readings are weird to me. Spread with the 33.1 load was 22 fps, and 33.5 was 13 fps. No SD numbers as i shot the 18 rounds over the chrony consecutive in round robin order.

Frank

 

[johara1]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, At that temp you might need to kick it up a little. Any Questions PM me.......jim

 

[bozo699]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Just got back from the range with these results in my new 6 Dasher. OCW test at 100 yards with RL-15, 450 primers, and Berger 105 Hybrids @ .010 off the lands. 33.1 looks real good along with 33.5 grains. But i am wondering why velocity went down from 33.3 to 33.5, and also from 32.5 to 32.7? Chroneyed with my trusty 35P Oehler. And am I lacking in velocity a bit? 30 inch 8 twist Broughton 5C barrel, .268 neck on a Nesika K action. No pressure whatsoever @ 33.5 but temp was only around 40 degrees. Shot round robin and 18 rounds fired. I got a little help from Johara on initial load and i am liking what i am seeing so far. But the velocity readings are weird to me. Spread with the 33.1 load was 22 fps, and 33.5 was 13 fps. No SD numbers as i shot the 18 rounds over the chrony consecutive in round robin order.

Frank

Frank,
I have found the best accuracy for the Dasher is around 3030-3050 fps, looks like you have a couple of possibilties there. Have you tried H-4895 or Varget in your Dasher? RL-15 is to dirty for my taste.
Wayne.

 

[birdog]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

I have read on this board that with the hybrids you need
an extra 1/2 gr of powder to get the same velocity as with
the VLD's due to the shorter bearing surface of the hybrids.
You are at the 3,000 fps threshold with a few more tenths
of RL-15.

 

[40X Guy]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Thanks for the reply's guys. Wayne, I have not tried Varget or H4895 yet, and yes the RL-15 is dirty. Jim and Birddog, I am gonna up the charge as I forgot all about the Hybrids needing more powder to get the velocity up. I am still wondering about the drop in velocity @ 33.5 grains?

Frank

 

[johara1]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, When i was testing last it was over 70 degrees, so at a lower temp. you need a little more to get the pressure up. I did run it a lot higher with no problems. I never had luck with Varget due to the lot to lot problems,it shoots average at best, never used 4895 because RL-15 shot so good. ......jim

 

[bozo699]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank,
Jim is right about Varget varying lot to lot but it has proven to shoot well for me, I just buy a lot of it when I need more. Remember your barrel is new and you will pick up some velocity as it breaks in, also in this crappy weather with clouds then sun then clouds again no Chronograph, not even the P35 will read correctly,....just a thought on that. The guy's I shoot with in Missoula Mt are shooting H-4895, these are the guys that have a pickup load of wood and brass, there not shooting RL-15 and there not shooting Varget, there shooting H-4895,....I like loosing so I continue on with Varget ???,....just another thought.
Wayne.

 

[40X Guy]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Just got back from the range and tried a totally different load as per Wayne's shooting buddies. RL-15 seemed to hit a wall in my rifle and just did not feel right. I loaded up 18 rounds with CCI 400's, H4895 from 31.8-32.8 in .2 increments, and the Berger 105 Hybrids @ .010 off the lands. The lo end load is as fast as the top end RL-15 load in my rifle. 55 degrees and no wind. Spread numbers are at least half of the RL-15 numbers and I may chase the 32.8 load further with some seating depth adjustments. Also may chase the 32.4 load further with seating depth adjustments also. Seems like my Dasher likes all the H4895 loads I ran thru it today. Comments, suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

Frank

 

[johara1]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, I would have shot RL-15 for a control group to see if a 15 degree change in temp. had anything to do with it. Too many records were shot with RL-15 to write it off that fast under two completely different conditions. I also see you changed primers,was the seating depth the same?......jim

 

[lloydx2]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

It really depends on what discipline your shooting. If your shooting benchrest under cover and your not in the sun. RE15 is a great powder. Maybe the tightest group shooter. But when your shooting F Class or Highpower Prone. Your in the sun all day. Temps can vary from mid forty's in the morning to mid eighty's or more in the afternoon. Not to mention shooting 22 rounds for record at once. 90 rounds in a day with out cleaning For this application you need a clean temp tolerant powder. I used to shoot RE15 and it was a hammer. But under certain conditions it was just to inconsistent. Ill have to say the fouling never was an issue. It would shoot as good with 90 rounds on it as it did from a clean bore. Lloyd

 

[40X Guy]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, I would have shot RL-15 for a control group to see if a 15 degree change in temp. had anything to do with it. Too many records were shot with RL-15 to write it off that fast under two completely different conditions. I also see you changed primers,was the seating depth the same?......jim

Jim, yes seating depth was exactly the same, the RL-15 just did not feel right and velocity spread numbers were not that good. But I have not ruled it out totally. Just seemed like the H4895 performed like a hammer as far as recoil and overall feel. Still need to stretch it out and have 2 more weekends of testing left. Lloyd, I would be shooting LR BR with this rifle, no F-class and quite probably shooting out to 1000 yards soon.


Frank

 

[lloydx2]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Sorry I didn't mean to throw something different out there. I thought you where a highpower shooter

 

[johara1]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, What i'm trying to say is shoot both at the same time, you can not be changing primers in one and not the other. Where do you plan to shoot? I would guess Williamsport, i go south to the IBS. at Harry Jones and Whitehorse and Reade in Pa........jim

 

[bozo699]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Just got back from the range and tried a totally different load as per Wayne's shooting buddies. RL-15 seemed to hit a wall in my rifle and just did not feel right. I loaded up 18 rounds with CCI 400's, H4895 from 31.8-32.8 in .2 increments, and the Berger 105 Hybrids @ .010 off the lands. The lo end load is as fast as the top end RL-15 load in my rifle. 55 degrees and no wind. Spread numbers are at least half of the RL-15 numbers and I may chase the 32.8 load further with some seating depth adjustments. Also may chase the 32.4 load further with seating depth adjustments also. Seems like my Dasher likes all the H4895 loads I ran thru it today. Comments, suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

Frank

Frank,
My 6BRX likes the Hybrids kissing or just off the lands.002-.005 off, others have had good luck at .010-.015 but that isn't what I noticed, I really liked your 32.4 load but your 32.8 load was closer to the velocity that the 6brx and dashers seem to prefer, most of the Dashers top out at about 32.5 to 33.0 grains of H-4895 so I think your about there, I think I would see if she could make 33.0 grains and if she can I think you will be 3030-3050 right where you need to be for optimal velocity in that cartridge, seating depth is usually key in getting your numbers down and best groups, I bet if you go in about .005-.008 you will see her really settle down or at least that is my guess, your using the right powder and primer combo now you just need to do a final tune,....best of luck my friend.
Wayne.

p.s what neck tension are you running, and are you really brushing your necks good? the brushing is also key to concentric ammo and low numbers, especially if your running quite a bit of tension.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Just got back from the range and tried a totally different load as per Wayne's shooting buddies. RL-15 seemed to hit a wall in my rifle and just did not feel right. I loaded up 18 rounds with CCI 400's, H4895 from 31.8-32.8 in .2 increments, and the Berger 105 Hybrids @ .010 off the lands. The lo end load is as fast as the top end RL-15 load in my rifle. 55 degrees and no wind. Spread numbers are at least half of the RL-15 numbers and I may chase the 32.8 load further with some seating depth adjustments. Also may chase the 32.4 load further with seating depth adjustments also. Seems like my Dasher likes all the H4895 loads I ran thru it today. Comments, suggestions and recommendations are welcome.

Frank

Actually, I started another thread to discuss that very phenomenon from R15 in my 6BR.

I found that the R15 did not have high velocity. Although it did shoot well, it did not seem to stayed velocity tuned for the whole day. Two different round robins at different parts of the day had different velocities.

In my rifle 8208 at the same charge gave almost 100 to 120 FPS faster velocity and there were no pressure signs at all.

 

[40X Guy]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, What i'm trying to say is shoot both at the same time, you can not be changing primers in one and not the other. Where do you plan to shoot? I would guess Williamsport, i go south to the IBS. at Harry Jones and Whitehorse and Reade in Pa........jim

Jim, i am shooting western Pa. matches at McDonalds, Lawrence County, and South Fork, longest distance is 600 yards. Building up to the 1000 yard plateau.
Will revisit the RL-15 later this week and go up towards 34.0 grains.

Frank

 

[40X Guy]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

p.s what neck tension are you running, and are you really brushing your necks good? the brushing is also key to concentric ammo and low numbers, especially if your running quite a bit of tension.

Wayne, running .001 neck tension on twice fired brass using a .265 bushing in my Wilson hand die for a .266 loaded round. Will be brushing inside of necks next go around.

Frank

 

[bozo699]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

p.s what neck tension are you running, and are you really brushing your necks good? the brushing is also key to concentric ammo and low numbers, especially if your running quite a bit of tension.

Wayne, running .001 neck tension on twice fired brass using a .265 bushing in my Wilson hand die for a .266 loaded round. Will be brushing inside of necks next go around.

Frank

Frank,
I didn't realize how important this step is until last year, take some older brass your not using for matches, take one and do nothing with it, the other and steel wool the neck shiny clean but do nothing else with it and take the third piece of fired brass and run it in and out of a neck brush about 10 strokes, it will really show up if you have a arbor press with seat force measurement on it like the K&M but if not just take mental note on each of the three cases of how hard or easy they seated and tell me what you learned. Also check the three cases for loaded round concentricity, pre check them before you start to make sure there all three good, I think you will be very surprised with the results
Wayne.

 

[johara1]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, I use .001 neck tension, tried .002 and the group opened up. I anneal every time so it is very consistent. I shot in the wind today to see how the 105H would act in a switching wind and the old 115's ate them up.......jim

 

[bozo699]

Re: My new Dasher load workup

Frank, I use .001 neck tension, tried .002 and the group opened up. I anneal every time so it is very consistent. I shot in the wind today to see how the 105H would act in a switching wind and the old 115's ate them up.......jim

Jim,
I agree with your loading practices there, especially the annealing part, I believe either anneal or don't but if you do do it every time. I am sad to hear about the wind and the Hybrids, I as well had some switchy winds today and my 10 shot 500 yard group at the end of the day,...15 minutes ago had 2.791 inches of vertical in it, if I deducted shot number 10 it dropped it to 1.790 with 1.971 horizontal, my only excuse was the brass was old brass that has been over pressured in the past, I actually tried to jam them a little about .005 into the lands, I imagine I will have to jump them to settle it back down, if it doesn't rain tomorrow I will try again with new brass, this is in a 11 lb. rifle so I am having to learn how to drive it, it is nothing like my 17 lb. rifle you really have to drive her. Can you give a comparison of the Hybrids V.S the old 115's? in approximate inches and at what distance.
Wayne.