Universal Bench Varmint Target Rifle--An Idea.

[Forum Boss]

Editor in Chief
This will never work. You cannot obtain peak performance in all the types of shooting you have described in one gun. The 8 groove barrel does not exist in the benchrest world. You have put together all the hodge ideas of what you know into one rifle. Makes this your Summer project - build such a gun and compete with it in all the disciplines you have identified.
I think you could do what you talk about in 2 guns. One built to 10 1/2# BR standard and one for all the rest of the shooting you described.
You could take a LV BR gun put on a 1.35 Cruiser barrel and do some of the shooting you have described. But the one gun idea you describe is something for paper readers not paper shooters.
Stephen Perry

The idea is not to create a gun that is capable of winning the Super Shoot in existing classifications and then turning around and dominating a 1000-yard BR match. The notion is one gun, competing vs. LIKE guns, in its own class, in matches from 100 yards out.

Just two weeks ago, at the BR school in San Gabriel, a 22 Dasher, preloaded with VLD bullets, shot in the fun match against a bunch of guys shooting PPCs. Competitors included the Cactus Classic winner and many top PPC guys with Hall of Fame points. The gun, in its first match, finished middle of the pack. The same rifle will be used next week to shoot a 300/500/600 yard varmint silhouette match at Pala. The Dasher's Agg was about 0.120" off the winner. At 200 yards it might have been more competitive with the PPCs.

At my local club, in our informal 100-yard Score match, my friend John has placed 1st, 1st, and tied for first in three competitions. This is with a standard 6BR, 29" 8-twist barrel, MBR stock, shooting Berger 105 VLDs. He shoots the same gun in 600-yard competition, and has 3 victories in 4 matches. No it's not legal for IBS "point-blank" competition, but who cares?

Could he take that gun and win a major registered BR match vs. PPCs? No, I don't think so. But, he has a VERSATILE rifle that is pretty darn close to a PPC at 100, equal/better at 300m, and clearly better at 500-600 yards. That seems to me a pretty nice compromise.

I guess some guys understand the concept, while others believe that if a "universal" rifle can't beat existing short-range guns, the idea is not worth pursuing.

The point of this thread is to stimulate discussion, to create an exchange of ideas. From what I see at the local club level there is interest in the idea. The guys I know who disparage the concept the most are the ones who already have $4000-$5000 invested in a PPC.

And if there is no point in competing at 100 with anything less than a full-tilt high-buck PPC LV/HV, then why do we tolerate rimfire competition at all, and why does the Hunter BR class exist?

 

[BoydAllen]

I think that it is fair to say that this idea is the result of the type of competition that you and others enjoy at your home range, and in that context it makes good sense. If you want to travel to other matches, a rifle of the sort that you propose would probably be competitive at 600 yard Benchrest and when conditions are mild, at 1,000. The only problem would be a 100 and 200. No one that I know of intentionally shows up with a rifle that is design limited to be middle of the pack. On the other hand not enough long bullet Sporters have been tried to definitively prove that it would be impossible to win with one. Why don't you give it a go? San Gabriel should be close enough for that, and you will undoubtedly have fun, and enjoy a lot of good company while you find out. As far as PPCs go, your number is a bit high by a factor of about two or more. A new rifle of sufficient quality to win matches, including scope, and reloading equipment may be built for under $3,000 including gunsmithing, and if the stock is chosen carefully, and a universal bolt face specified, the barrel can be swapped for a fast twist 6BR that would undoubtedly be competitive at 600, for about that many dollars more,$600)including dies. If one were to choose a good used Benchrest rifle and rebarrel it, the previous figure might be reduced by as much as $600. Build your rifle, shoot, and enjoy it. How did it go? "If you build it, they...." Good luck with your project.,On the other hand if you don't think the project worth your time and money, why should anyone else feel differently?)
Boyd

 

[StephenPerry]

Paul is that you the Editor in Chief and is Glen the shooting bud you are talking about. This is a good Forum but I would like to know who the editor and moderator are. Wouldn't hurt to list some names. Like I said at the BR School handles suck.
I commend you for having the one gun approach. But like anything else the one gun works fine in some competitions but is not competitive in others. A HV PPC would more than hold it's own in many benchrest type events you listed. What you have detailed is a concept gun. The concept being to have fun and be able to compete in several events using the same gun. I think you would find your gun would cost much more when you consider the barrels you be replacing.
Right now I only shoot short range BR. As of now 6 PPC wins at least 98 % of the time. The other 2% are either 22 PPC and short versions, 6 tall dog, and whatever else competes. I liked it better when other calibers like the .222 and the 6X47 were competitive. Unfortunately those days are long gone. Aggs in the 1's and 2's are the winning aggs at 100 & 200 yd.
Paul don't take my comments as criticism. If you would have said everything except short range BR I would have agreed with you no problem.
Paul you are to be commended this a great looking Website. Great pictures. Lots of subjects to choose from.
Keep up the good work.
Stephen Perry

 

[Forum Boss]

Stephen,

First let me say thanks for running a great BR school. I've got a bunch of photos and hope to do a feature story soon--maybe this week. The shooter I mentioned with the 6BR is John Southwick, whose gun,with 6-284 barrel) has been featured as a Gun of the Week.

As noted, this thread was intended to spur discussion. We WANT to hear everyone's views. The inspiration for the "one-gun" idea really had little to do with my particular club. Rather I looked at Scandinavia, where tens of thousands of shooters compete in what is essentially a one-design class, using Sauer target rifles. Because of the wide number of shooters, the guns are affordable. Pre-fit no-gunsmithing barrels are available by mail-order for much less than we pay for a chambered custom tube. Shooters in very small towns with no access to gunsmiths are able to bolt together guns and be competitive because the specs are so tightly controlled.

There is a lot to be learned from this model. However, I don't think we can just import the concept outright. Precision shooting in the USA is mostly a game for guys 35 and up. They like to shoot from the bench and they like scopes. But I do think the notion of a tightly controlled one-design class, with components designed for minimal gunsmithing, has promise.

There seems to be a "cognitive disconnect" when I pose the idea of a gun that could shoot 100, 200, 300, 500, 600 yard matches, when talking with savy, veteran IBS/NBRSA short-range competitors. Their first reaction is "it won't work because it doesn't comply with our rules." OK... so create a new class. Next question. If people come to the match, pay their fees, shoot the same targets, what's the problem?

But the other thing to keep in mind is that for every registered BR match held each month in California alone, there are probably 50 informal, unregistered "shootin' matches" being conducted by some club. One has to keep things in perspective. Registered BR is a very small element of the world of competitive shooting.

Think of a pyramid. Right now registered 100/200 benchrest represents the top of the pyramid both in terms of the sophistication of equipment and the quality of the shooters. But below that level there are orders of magnitude more shooters who would be interested in a bench-optimized target rifle that would be capable of excellent performance at a variety of distances, at a reasonable cost.,And I should add that the same rifle could certainly be used on the ground in F-class and bipod matches such as Sacramento's tactical match. Witness Mirek from the Two Guns for Two brothers article; he won his first match shooting his 6BR at 500m from bipod in a "Sniper" competition.)

So far I see the primary objections to the Universal Rifle concept being:

1. True one-design is too restrictive. Americans want their guns to be distinctive.

A: This is a valid concern, but the success of GSSF,Glock) matches, Service Rifle matches, and Garand matches shows there IS a significant number of shooters,far exceeding the number of registered Benchresters) who are perfectly happy to compete with virtually identical equipment.

2. Requiring a single source for action and single source for barrel won't work for overseas competitors.

A: This is a real concern. You either have to pick an action/barrel that people can easily acquire overseas, or you allow some flexibility, perhaps merely specifying bbl length and contour.

3. The concept won't work because a fast-twist gun shooting long bullets isn't competitive with existing registered LV/HV/Sporter classes at 100/200.

A: Granted--a 6PPC will outshoot a 6BR running 105s at 100/200. No dispute as to that. But if the "universalists" are competing in their own class, what's the problem? And, more importantly, the guns can be used at the myriad local 100-200 yard shoots that probably outnumber registered matches by over 100 to 1, nationwide. And I'll say this much about performance. Jackie Schmidt, doing testing on our behalf with his rail gun, demonstrated that a std 6BR, with 105gr BT bullets, can deliver sub 0.2 MOA 25-shot Aggs at 200 yards,in far less than perfect conditions). NOTE I am NOT suggesting that a 6BR in an MBR stock can "run with the big boys" at the Super Shoot. What I AM saying is the performance can be pretty darn good. And again, all it takes is for the IBS and NBRSA to say "welcome, come shoot with us". All they have to do is say "Universal Rifles complying with 600yd Light Gun rules may compete IN THEIR OWN CLASS" at 100/200 yard matches.

4. It won't work because you need a gun that is competitive at 800, 900 and 1000 to be suitable for F-Class, and the 6BR won't cut it past 600.

A: Fine, choose another caliber. Maybe the new 6.5x47 is the answer. But again, if all the Universal One-Design Gun,ODG) shooters are competing on a level,caliber/equipment) playing field, maybe the 6BR is just fine. After all, F-TR is alive an well, limited to .223 Rem and .308 Win, and the 6BR has better ballistics than either of those calibers at 1000.

5. For what the gun would cost you might as well build a true custom.

A: I think the answer to this is careful selection of components, combined with the,eventual) cost savings of mass production. Ruger, CZ or even Smith & Wesson, could probably deliver a very nice action for under $400 if the volume was there.

Anyway, I'm sorry for being so long-winded. I guess I feel it is important to reiterate that arguing that the concept won't work because an ODG won't beat a PPC at 100/200 sort of misses the point. That's sort of like saying NASCAR is pointless because the cars don't comply with Formula 1 weight limits. I'm NOT advocating that an ODG class replace existing registered HV/LV classfications. I am hoping the IBS and NBRSA would open their matches to a different kind of gun, just as varmint matches are,for the most part) open to the man who wants to come shoot his PPC. See: http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek039.html,Jeff Gates' wins Varmint match with 6PPC).

The bottom line, then, can be win-win for everybody. The ODG shooter gets to compete at multiple yardages, manufacturers sell more components, IBS and NBRSA get more members, and new-comers to precision shooting have a logical entry path into competition that offers them the most "bang for the buck" and the most variety in match formats. And the guy on a tight budget can compete on an equal basis with fellow shooters around the world.

 

[ReedG]

Dang it, EIC, every time I read this I get excited.

The "new class theory" is an absolute must. You can never get a new idea like this through the BR community. I propose a new class called "Accurate Rifle". Will probably have to address equipment limitations to level a field of guys who can afford $2,000 for a rest and bags against the guys who have limited financial ability.

I think the toughest part of this idea will be keeping a level field for widely varying financial abilities so it doesn't just turn into another "see what I can buy" class.

Maybe make it a "claimer" division where the total setup: rifle, scope, rests, bags, cannot exceed $X,XXX.

It would be best to get a manufacturer/gunsmith who would provide a spec rifle for anyone who wanted to shoot, like the Toyota Atlantic Series of race cars where you buy the car and go racing. But again, it needs to be minimally "custom" to keep costs down. Brand A action with a specific trigger, Brand B barrel with specific chamber specs, Brand C stock, Brand D scope ... no substitutions. Maybe you could "rent" one!

If the regulations were drawn up to be as minimal yet specific as possible they could be submitted to the existing sanctioning bodies and adopted as a separate class that would not mess with anything presently going on. Same rules no matter who sanctions.

I personally hope, though, that through it all the 6 BR is the caliber of choice.

 

[6Dasher]

I think some people still don't grasp the concept you are proposing. Compare it to F1 and A1 racing. F1 is all out and specialised for each team/driver with no two companies using the same. In A1 the cars are handed out,all the same) and you can only alter the setup and tires.

Same thing here. These guns will not be made for LV/HV matches, nor for Hunter/score matches. But a class of their own.

I am all for it... Over here,NL) we have two classes in Benchrest, Varmint and Hunter. As there are only 50-100 schooters we have to live with the fact that only a handful have IBS/NBRSA legal varmint rifles and all the other people shoot with factory 223/243/308's. If we wouldn't, there would be no matches. The proposed $2000 price tag will lower the threshold for more shooters to join in. The current $4000 for a BR rifle that we can use for 6 matches per year is not reasonable for 99% of shooters here. But if we were able to use the same rifle in BR/F-Class/Fun matches, there would be more competitions.

There are a lot of factory match rifles here in 6BR these days. Poeple would only have to remove the diopter, put a scope on top and they are ready to go. This 5.5kg "Standard Rifle" class would fit nicely in the 16.5lbs limit when fitted with a scope and mount. People would not even have to have a custom built, so you have yet more diversity as factory rifles are available. This is more for the non-US shooters I guess, but would open up the class for international competitions.

 

[Forum Boss]

Jim and Reed--thanks. I'm glad some folks DO understand the concept. Jim also did a great job of explaining the appeal.

I'm afraid I haven't been able to get the idea across to many 100/200 registered benchresters. Many can't get over the idea of a gun that exceeds current weight limits--as if 10.5 lbs,LV) or 13.5 lbs,HV) is somehow sacrosanct.,Yet, ironically, many of the same guys will tell you that "point-blank" equipment has evolved to the point that there is no need to have both a LV class and HV class anymore--the rifles are virtually identical, and many guys shoot their LV in HV class. Two Hall of Famers have told me they would be perfectly happy with ONE BR class, either 10.5 lbs or 13.5 pounds, or some number in-between. And one guy even advocated getting rid of Sporter class altogether because he feels that impedes development of sub 6mm calibers.)

Other short-range guys tell me "we'll if it won't outshoot a 14-twist PPC why would anyone want one?" To which I reply, "Umm because it cost a whole bunch less and can shoot a wide variety of different yardages and formats."

 

[6Dasher]

You don't want to use your NASCAR in a cross-country ralley,or the other way around). Different beasts entirely. BR will stay BR, this has nothing to do with that.

Reed: You won't want to specify brands or makers, as they are regionaly bound,US, euro, ausie, sa, nz etc). Spec the weight, dimensions, caliber/chamber-size, scope power and adjustable gear,shoulder, cheek etc) and also the rests. Keep the brands open to allow building a rifle anywhere in the world.

Bummer though, my new rifle will be near 22lbs should have known about this earlier ggg

 

[savet06]

I have been following this thread for a while, and I get more and more excited about the type of gun you are describing.
A gun to be used in a separate class altogether.
Not BR, VFS, F-class, but its own. Whether it is at 100, 200, or 1,000 yards it will be great to feel that the playing field is as level as it can be for less than a full out rig.
I don't know the best combination of equipment or how to include the entire world in the ability to build this gun, but if it ever gets figured out I'M IN!! The thread is a great way to get as many ideas for how it will work as possible. The naysayers have their place, but this idea will only fail if we don't give it a try.
Combos of equipment are infinite with all the choices available to us. How to narrow it down?
Do you choose the tolerances of the custom action i.e. the "lower end" custom actions out there?
The weight, stock type, scope brand/power, caliber.
Facts about guns:
I can shoot a .50cal at 100yds or 2,000. Will it win a BR match no. I would choose a caliber an run with it. A .260 will punch a hole at 100 and 1,000 yards. At neither distance is it ideal, but it will work. With this format it may not be the goal to have THE optimal cartridge for ONE specific yardage,i.e. the PPC for 100/200), but a cartridge that WILL WORK at almost any distance up to 1,000yds.

I think that if the format gets approved in the States, and the popularity grows, the market will adapt appropriately. WE, the consumer, drive the way things run to a large degree,look at the AR-15's out there going for >$1,000, or the high quality 6x scopes out there for HBR, or a 90gr .223 that is commercially available but only used by a very small population).
Challenge everything.
Mike

 

[Forum Boss]

The exciting thing is we have three pretty good caliber choices that all offer Lapua or Norma Factory Ammo. The 6BR, the 6XC,ammo pending), and the new 6.5x47 Lapua. I think one of those rounds would do the trick--it just sort of depends on whether you want to favor short range or long range, and whether ability to feed a magazine is important.

There are many active clubs out there with maybe 25-30 guys who regularly compete in some kind of match and only one or two guys owns a 6PPC. Guys shoot matches with a restocked .243 or 22-250 or .308. These guys have house payments, truck payments, kids in school. They're not going to buy a $1400 Nightforce or a $700 Farley rest. But compared to what they're shooting now, a well-thought-out one-design class would offer significantly enhanced performance from 100-600 yards, and I can even envision a National or World championship where guys only have to bring their stock and front/rear rest--barrelled actions might be supplied by a sponsor, or available for sale at cost. That could certainly change the way the game is played.

With a Richard's, Shehane or Baer laminated stock,$290), T-24 Weaver,$363), Krieger barrel,$280), you're looking at about $933 less action and trigger. Add $100 for a v-block installed,but that's less than a full pillar bedding job). If you went with glue-ins that would minimize costs,and a lot of guys could do this themselves). With a Lawton or Predator action and Shilen trigger, add $750 to that for a total cost,less chambering) of $1683, with scope.

An operation like Stiller's could deliver pre-fit barrels and complete barreled actions. Again, the standardization reduces smithing time and set-up costs.

Regarding optics, I first suggested a Nikon 6-20 EFR, but maybe a 24x is better. I think the T-24 is enough power, and with a decent exit pupil, its more user-friendly than a 36x. Bruno's has them for $363.00.

What do you guys think--go with a fixed 24X or adopt a variable for more money?

 

[Aussie_bob]

Yep name the comp I.A.C. International Accurate Rifle. Specify Weight limit 17lbs complete. Must be chambered in 6mmBr standard I.A.C. contour Barrel now will it be Magazine or single shot. Distance to be shot from 100 to 1000 yards Type of targets or is it clays at varying distances with certain number of shots would all have to be worked out or Fly shoot at different distances.
If you could write up the rules etc then get a few sponsors on board to make it worthwhile prizes the shooters would come over to it. Make it a challenge prarie dog shoot with targets at different random ranges.
There are all sorts of ideas just have to settle on one and stick with it just make it so it can be shot internationaly.

 

[LRCampos]

I am just waiting the idea to be reality and I will jump on it! I am looking to buy or build a 6mmBR and my idea is to have a budget BR type gun, exactly the idea you are discussing.
Being outside US it does not matter if the action is only made in US as almost the rest of the world import actions and guns from US anyway. So, the Predator by Stiller is my number one option. The Krieger barrel is what I was thinking to my BR rifle, so it is a plus. The stock brand you mentioned is ok too.
On scopes, why not let the shooter choose from two or tree models with maximum power being the same,ex: Burris 6-24, Weaver T24 and Bushnell 4200 6-24)?
My only concern is the gunsmith price to install barrel, chamber, crown etc. How much it would cost? I saw on some BR gunsmiths that prices may be on U$150 to U$400. So, as I understand, if Stiller would be the choice, they would seel the action barreled, right? All we would have to do is buy the barreled action, the stock, put them togheter and install a scope. Is it right?
The shooting would be from a rest or from bipod?
This idea remembers me the monotype sail class, like Laser, 470, J24 etc. It would be great to foreigners compete with chances to win on a US Championship Match.
Please, put the idea on the real world!

 

[6Dasher]

If it's to be international, you can't set the brand of barrel/action/scope, as that will make it very expensive for everyone outside the US. We too have house and car payments Even though our cars are smaller

- 6.5x47 would be ideal, but there are plenty of factory 6BR's over here.
- 16.5 or 17lbs is a good weight class.
- I would go for free choice in single-shot or magazine fed, again to allow factory rifles into the game.
- Determine the scope by it's maximum power,zoom of fixed), not a certain brand. 20x or 24x sounds good.
- How about a fixed trigger pull of 2.5 pounds? again to not have an advantage by adding a $270 BR trigger and lowering trigger pull to 1.5oz that way. You can still fit that Jewell, but you will have the same amount of pull as the guy next to you.
- Rests or bipod?


Dammit, I'm going to have to sell one of my rifles to make room. We're only allowed five here :,

 

[ReedG]

After 5 years of running egg shoots and informal benchrest, plus now in the second season as IBS Match Director for 100-/200-yd. score shooting, I can tell you that every piece of the gun or the overall price will have to be spec'd and limited or there is no reason for the class. If we are left to all build our own version the regulations have to be very specific or it will quickly end up as a $2,500+ rifle.

I still would not object to the rifle being based on a factory action that can be trued, scope power limited to 24X, either variable or fixed, trigger pull set a 1.5 lbs. minimum, etc. A trued Remington, Sako, or Savage action will shoot with the big-buck customs -- it happens all the time -- plus they will mostly be competing against each other.

I don't think there are many guys in my area of the world,northeastern Vermont) that could or would spend $2,000 for an entry-level target rifle. If the focus of the "Accurate Rifle" is to create an entry-level class, then price is one of the biggest concerns. If the focus is just to create a new class for guys to shoot their rifles which don't fit into current LV/HV regs, then that's another whole animal.

I'm building a rifle now, on a Savage action with Pac-Nor barrel and Rifle Basix trigger and for a time at least will have to shoot it with a factory stock because there isn't a decent custom stock available that I can afford. One shop wants over $700 for a laminated stock, inletted and pillar bedded. I can tell you that I don't live in that zip code!

Trying to create an entry-level class, which is my interest, is very difficult when using custom pieces.

Paul, maybe you could come up with a poll to see what the "sense of the forum" is on factory vs. custom, scope power, caliber, etc. Seems to me there is a lot of wisdom being shown here but I caution you all to remember that some of us have "come up to custom rifles" but a lot of newcomers are still fishing around the edges.

Some suggestions ...

1. Is the Accurate Rifle class to be entry-level or just a new class for current rifles?

2. Factory-based action or custom?

3. 6mm BR or ???

4. 24X fixed, variable, or either?

5. Trigger Pull: 1, 1.5, 2, 2.5 lbs.

 

[Forum Boss]

LR, yes the idea is somewhat akin to the Laser in sailing.

For a name, how about "Accurate International Monotype"

AIM for short.

So you could call up Sinclair or Midway and say "I need a stock and trigger for an AIM Rifle."

or "Precision One-Design", POD

Reed--I'm with you 100% on the need to spec components down to the letter. If you just set a 25X power max on the scope, for example, then someone shows up with a $2800 Schmidt and Bender.

Re Factory actions--That would be great IF, IF somebody can deliver them with sufficiently good tolerances to allow pre-fit barrels. Over the long haul I think that is very important. The Sauer target rifle shooters in Europe can buy a barrel mail-order, pop a couple of screws and stick it right on with no gun-smithing.

I'm wondering if Anschutz might be interested. Or Cooper?? I think the action is the key to affordibility.

It's really a shame the Tikka 595 is not longer made.

 

[rhino]

Gentleman the reason behind the Custom action is because of the experienced problems with the floating bolt design of the Savage in the br line.

If you have a Remington you'll need it trued, blueprinted..etc..etc..etc. So buy the time your done your better off with a custom action.

George makes his own line of 700 clones. Perhaps if we went through him on a group buy and him and his staff did the smithing we could get a group rate?

Perhaps we need to make it available in two calibers like 6br and 6.5 something like x47 or Grendel. You see wolf is going to be making this cartridage?? Neat stuff for sure.

Stock needs to be consistant and a bag rider I think is what many people want so a MBR Shehane or McMillan would suffice? triggers can be had by JARD at a set weight of pull...if you want that a limiting factor as well. Everyone gets a JARD 1 pound trigger...etc. I have one in my 10-22 set at a pound and its great.

Now barrels. Everyone could probally agree on a Kreiger or Pac-nor right?

Scope might need a little more hashing out.

Just throwing that out there..pick away at it, but like I said before I would really like to see a group buy on these.

RHINOUT!

 

[ReedG]

What "experienced problems"?

 

[savet06]

"One Gun One Design" or OGOD for short
Yeah, I'll take an OGOD in 6.5, and 8lb of Varget...

 

[Forum Boss]

Here are some thoughts on specifications.,Note: these are just some initial ideas. Plainly we are a LONG way from setting anything in stone. The big question is the action. Here is a super low-budget proposal using a Tikka 595 with factory trigger. This could bring you in under $1500.00 complete with Scope!)

Scope: Weaver T-24,$365) or Bushnell 4200 6-24,$420)
Rings: Burris Signature Zee,$30)
Stock: MBR-Style,or maybe LowRider), inletted,$275)
Action: Tikka 595,1-lb std trigger),$450 for donor gun, $350.00 net)
Chambering: 6mm BR Norma, .272" neck,must chamber factory ammo).
Bbl: Krieger 8-twist, .236" 4-groove, 6mm, #17 contour, prefit,$400.00, deep-chambered and threaded, but not final-headspaced)
Required gunsmithing: Set shoulder,$60)
Pillar bedding: Optional. Glue-in allowed.

All-up weight: 7.5 kg,16.5 lbs)
Barrel length: 700mm,27.55") max

$1480 complete,as glue-in, with T-24 Weaver).

About the action--I've talked to Mac about the 595 Tikka. He says the factory trigger can go down to 1 lb. no problem. The 595 has a built-in recoil lug. He says they are very square and do NOT require extensive "blue-printing". He usually just faces the receiver, but he says that's not really necessary. Re headspacing, he says normally a pre-fit barrel will work fine if they are left .005" short and a smith does just a little measuring on the shoulder. The problem is availability. The 595 is no longer in production. But you can find donor guns for about $450. Sell off the barrel and stock and you've got a $350 action/trigger.

NOTE: The 595 may not really be viable because it's no longer in production, but it has many nice qualities. It's very square and stiff. It has a tri-lug bolt with light bolt lift. Very good magazines are available for anyone wanting a mag-fed version. Mac says you can get the trigger down to 1 pound reliably. With a good mag, the barreled action could be removed and placed in a different-style stock for HighPower competition.

Re action installation--I'd like to hear your ideas on allowing glue-ins. This would allow more "home gunsmithing" and would cost less than a professional pillarbedding job. You lose the flexibility of swapping out the action however. I'm wondering how many people would actually do that.

 

[AlNyhus]

Here's a few thoughts on how the rules could be written:
-Action: Any repeater or single shot action from a major manufacturer. Replacement actions permitted as allowed by the rules committee.
-Cartridge: Must be able to chamber a fact. Lapua 6BR case, including neck length and diameter.
-Weight: 16 lbs. including optics.
-Trigger: Any trigger permitted. Minimum pull weight 1.5 lbs.
-Stock: Any stock material permitted. 3" forend width maximum. Any bedding allowed.
-Optics: Max. magnification of 24X. Variables must be taped or otherwise locked at 24X. Any mounting system allowed.
-Barrel: Any profile, any length.

Really, to get this going you're going to need an alliance with either/both the IBS or the NBRSA for acceptance in 100-300 yd. competition. The IBS is a pretty progressive organization that actually allows it's members to vote on what they want. If you're serious about this class, why not submit an agenda item to be considered at the annual IBS meeting in January? Signatures for an agenda item need to be collected by July 1st, so you have time to do it. Check with Jim Borden at the IBS for further info.

Feel free to critque my rules ideas...lots of good discussion here.

Good shootin'. -Al