Uneven Erosion of Barrel Lands -- Cause?

[Dave M.]

Coated rods hold abrasives, polished rods do not.

What rods do you suggest then? Curious?

 

[Dave M.]

I wipe down my rod after EVERY pass. I hope it helps.
Gotta be better than the old 3 piece aluminum stuffed down the muzzle.....that was a long time ago.

I wipe the rod down completely on each pass out of the breech of the rifle.
Dave

 

[K22]

You need to get over that. I would never run a coated rod down the bore of a custom barrel.

I'll take your word for it - I'm not expert for sure when it comes to rifles.

However, I've never had any issues with the Dewey rods that I could detect, i.e., no abrasions on the coating or embedded material in the coating and I've been using them for a very long time. Perhaps I'm missing something but at my age and stage in the shooting sports, I think I'll just stay with them.

 

[K22]

Carbon fiber rods are abrasive!! You will find if you take the time to search it the CF rods can shatter and people have impaled themself in the arm when it happened. You guys can use whatever you want, but a polished steel rod holds no abrasive. Jerry Still made the best and the were Melonited.

I would never use those carbon fiber rods, especially the Tipon ones I've seen at the range. Over the years I witness the tips coming off, significant flex even with a rod guide, and embedded material in the rod. Also, hair line factures in the rod.

The Dewey rods have a steel core, and the coating is very durable, at least in my experience. The tips are part of the steel core and I've never had one fail. Also, I never had embedded material in the coatings, but I wipe the rod off after each pass.

I'm not asserting that they are superior to all steel rods, just that I haven't had any problems with the Dewey rods that I could detect. I've seen several benchrest guys at the range use them. However, I believe they are far superior to carbon fiber rods.

 

[Will Henry]

I prevent rod damage by simply not cleaning as often as I used to! When I started BR shooting, it was SOP to clean after every group. Then I started cleaning after every other group and finally, I started cleaning at the end of the day. Today, I clean after 80-100 shots.
Regarding uneven wear: I used to see 308 barrels, which had been used to shoot military ball ammunition, which displayed an unusual erosion pattern in the throat. It was asif a hollow had been scooped out on one side of the throat. This showed up on barrels with a round count of around 3500 or so. I have no explanation for this. A lot of the ammunition was quite crooked and it may be that random orientation put the erosion in one area more than others. When these barrel quit shooting, it was often quite sudden. In one case, the shooter started getting fliers which would miss the target entirely! Anyway, that was uneven wear. WH

 

[David Milisock]

Coated rods hold abrasives, polished rods do not.

Why would you need to use abrasives on quality barrels? My custom barrels don't get fired as much during varmint hunting as competition barrels but I do run hyper velocities. My varmint rifles will average 1 1/16" groups at 300 yards.

A few patches of Hoppes, as few swipes with a nylon brush, a few of Hoppes, a few of Sweets, let it set 10 minutes, a few of Hoppes, a few dry. A look and I'm done, the next day into the field, if the rifle is to go into storage awhile, I oil the barrel.

 

[butchlambert]

Why would you need to use abrasives on quality barrels? My custom barrels don't get fired as much during varmint hunting as competition barrels but I do run hyper velocities. My varmint rifles will average 1 1/16" groups at 300 yards.

A few patches of Hoppes, as few swipes with a nylon brush, a few of Hoppes, a few of Sweets, let it set 10 minutes, a few of Hoppes, a few dry. A look and I'm done, the next day into the field, if the rifle is to go into storage awhile, I oil the barrel.

Your residue from fired rounds are pure as a baby's ass?

 

[butchlambert]

I use Ivy and Stiller cleaning rods.

 

[David Milisock]

Your residue from fired rounds are pure as a baby's ass?

If I'm shooting with basically a factory 700 Remington with a new custom cut Remington barrel, .354" 100 yard groups and 1 1/16" 300 yard groups, and I am, then wacking chucks out to 600 yards and I am. I'm not talking taking 5 shots, (4 misses) to get a hit. What is the benefit of doing more? If you can tell me my field rifle will do better I'll try it.

Quite frankly these are average groups, there are days I do better and days I do worse and due to running 65,000 PSI I burn barrels up in about 2,500 rounds. That's with moly coated projectiles.

Now basically I work loads and loadlotsts of powder and bulletts that may last 3 years so with shooting chucks and crows a barrel may Las a decade or more.

 

[butchlambert]

Young feller, just answer my question. You must have unobtanium bullets and powder that leaves no abrasive residue in your barrel. I'm not interested in your World Class shooting, just how you have components that leave no abrasive residue in your barrel. I would like to use it in mine.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Powder laying on the bottom of the case.

 

[jelenko]

It's expensive reading this forum!

 

[bugman]

You need to get over that. I would never run a coated rod down the bore of a custom barrel.

why not?

 

[butchlambert]

why not?

Jack, read the whole thread. Trash and abrasives embed in the coating of the rod.

 

[INTJ]

Why would you need to use abrasives on quality barrels?

To get the carbon out. Even good quality barrels carbon up sometimes. In fact, I'd say that most premium barrels benefit from an abrasive every 200 rounds or so.

I have shot, cleaned, developed loads, and scoped a bunch of premium barrels; especially so over the last 18 months. Most need an abrasive every now and then to keep carbon from building up.

I do have two exceptions right now. A Benchmark on my 300 SAUM IMP Heavy LRBR gun, and a Bartlein on my 6BRA Light Gun. The will both clean to bare metal with carbon cutter on a bronze brush........even though that makes the good fellas at Bartlein gasp.....

We don't need to clean to bare metal, just get all the carbon off the lands and most out of the grooves. That's all I was trying to to with these two barrels and was surprised at how easily they cleaned. However, they are the exception in my experience.

BTW, I really like the @butchlambert method of cleaning the barrel before a shot is ever fired. I like to hit it with an abrasive right off the bat. That seems to be all the break in that is needed.

As to uneven throat erosion, I don't know. Several times I have seen what appears to be uneven throat erosion with a dirty barrel. However, when cleaned the unevenness goes away.

I suppose all the chambering errors mentioned in their thread could cause an uneven throat, but it's hard to imagine seeing that in anything but a cheap factory rifle. It's just not hard to cut a straight chamber. All of my chambers are nice and even with clean rifling lines, except for those stupid 5R barrels that wind up with U-shaped lands--though they are still even.

 

[David Milisock]

To get the carbon out. Even good quality barrels carbon up sometimes. In fact, I'd say that most premium barrels benefit from an abrasive every 200 rounds or so.

I have shot, cleaned, developed loads, and scoped a bunch of premium barrels; especially so over the last 18 months. Most need an abrasive every now and then to keep carbon from building up.

I do have two exceptions right now. A Benchmark on my 300 SAUM IMP Heavy LRBR gun, and a Bartlein on my 6BRA Light Gun. The will both clean to bare metal with carbon cutter on a bronze brush........even though that makes the good fellas at Bartlein gasp.....

We don't need to clean to bare metal, just get all the carbon off the lands and most out of the grooves. That's all I was trying to to with these two barrels and was surprised at how easily they cleaned. However, they are the exception in my experience.

BTW, I really like the @butchlambert method of cleaning the barrel before a shot is ever fired. I like to hit it with an abrasive right off the bat. That seems to be all the break in that is needed.

As to uneven throat erosion, I don't know. Several times I have seen what appears to be uneven throat erosion with a dirty barrel. However, when cleaned the unevenness goes away.

I suppose all the chambering errors mentioned in their thread could cause an uneven throat, but it's hard to imagine seeing that in anything but a cheap factory rifle. It's just not hard to cut a straight chamber. All of my chambers are nice and even with clean rifling lines, except for those stupid 5R barrels that wind up with U-shaped lands--though they are still even.

Are your custom barrels not lapped when you get them?

 

[INTJ]

Are your custom barrels not lapped when you get them?

No, they are lapped, but lapping isn't magic.

 

[FNSafari]

I use Ivy and Stiller cleaning rods.

I have a bunch of Ivy rods. Nice. Never realized Gerry made rods. He made a nice neck turner though.

 

[David Milisock]

No, they are lapped, but lapping isn't magic.

Interesting, I just had a general purpose rifle built in 6MM ARC it's an Aero Precision AR 15 M4E as I said general purpose, a truck gun as you will.

I ran a few patches of Hoppes and a few dry patches. Sighted it in with Hornady 105 match ammo and after sight in, shot 5 groups that averaged just under 1/2" at 100 yards. I cleaned it using my hoppes, brush, hoppes, sweets, hoppes and dry patches method.

I then mounted a LE Redfield scope from my Delta A2 and sighted in, again the same 100 groups and then 5 groups at 300 yards averaging 1 1/2".

Granted this is not a match rifle but do you imagine that I'd have done better using an abrasive cleaner first? Or adding an abrasive step to my process?

To be honest I was surprised that an AR could deliver such accuracy, in fact as a touch rifle I'm placing a tactical 1x8 on it for general use.

 

[INTJ]

Interesting, I just had a general purpose rifle built in 6MM ARC it's an Aero Precision AR 15 M4E as I said general purpose, a truck gun as you will.

I ran a few patches of Hoppes and a few dry patches. Sighted it in with Hornady 105 match ammo and after sight in, shot 5 groups that averaged just under 1/2" at 100 yards. I cleaned it using my hoppes, brush, hoppes, sweets, hoppes and dry patches method.

I then mounted a LE Redfield scope from my Delta A2 and sighted in, again the same 100 groups and then 5 groups at 300 yards averaging 1 1/2".

Granted this is not a match rifle but do you imagine that I'd have done better using an abrasive cleaner first? Or adding an abrasive step to my process?

To be honest I was surprised that an AR could deliver such accuracy, in fact as a touch rifle I'm placing a tactical 1x8 on it for general use.

I don't know if you can improve the accuracy of an AR much by changing how you clean. They run a little differently than the bolt guns and match guns I usually shoot. The basic answer is if it is delivering accuracy you are happy with then stick with your current approach. If you want to tighten up groups then you'll have to experiment.

My LR BR rifles will shoot 1/2" groups and better at 300 yds in good conditions. The way I clean doesn't seem to make a huge difference, as long as I don't go too long between cleanings, get the barrel too dirty, speed it up, and put it out of tune.