Uneven Erosion of Barrel Lands -- Cause?
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I will third this. Years ago I overdid it on my 1st PD shoot, and I was using a bore guide, and took a good bit of 1 or 2 of the lands out a way using Rem Clean. Got a borescope not long after that trip and boy was I surprised when I examined the bore in that rifle. Interestingly, the rifle still shot pretty well. I'm still using JB, Iosso and ThorroClean, but sparingly, and use Mike Lucas guides now, which seem to do a lot better job of keeping the rod centered in the bore.
Never had the need to use harsh abrasives to clean a rifle to maintain consistent precision.
However, I don't rapid fire consecutive strings of rounds in a hot barrel which a PD hunt might involve. Hunting ground hogs and predators is a lot different especially these days. It's rare that I shoot more than 4 to 5 rounds in a hunting trip and that's almost always out of a cold barrel. Even during range practice, I don't rapid fire strings out of a hot barrel.
Totally agree with the bore / rod guide comments. Also, I use a Dewey coated rod and no-harm brushes. I know a lot of top shooters advocate a SS cleaning rods but there is just something about running a steel rod down the bore that concerns me.
However, I don't rapid fire consecutive strings of rounds in a hot barrel which a PD hunt might involve. Hunting ground hogs and predators is a lot different especially these days. It's rare that I shoot more than 4 to 5 rounds in a hunting trip and that's almost always out of a cold barrel. Even during range practice, I don't rapid fire strings out of a hot barrel.
Totally agree with the bore / rod guide comments. Also, I use a Dewey coated rod and no-harm brushes. I know a lot of top shooters advocate a SS cleaning rods but there is just something about running a steel rod down the bore that concerns me.
butchlambert
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Lack of a proper break in.
Lets say one land gets coppered up with the very first shots from a bbl. It is now shielded from the heat, friction and flame of firing the gun but the other three aren't. This is why I'm a big proponent of doing a proper break in on any gun that you care much about. You only get one chance at a new throat. The heat/flame does most of the work on a break in. I sometimes use the analogy of taking a fresh cut piece of metal from a bandsaw, with a burr left. Wave a torch over it and it glows red almost instantly while the rest of the part doesn't even have time to warm to the touch. This is bbl break in. Those tiny burrs that collect copper in the throat either go away or they don't and if they go away unevenly, this is what you'll have from now on, basically. The first rounds down the bbl are the most critical, imho.
Lets say one land gets coppered up with the very first shots from a bbl. It is now shielded from the heat, friction and flame of firing the gun but the other three aren't. This is why I'm a big proponent of doing a proper break in on any gun that you care much about. You only get one chance at a new throat. The heat/flame does most of the work on a break in. I sometimes use the analogy of taking a fresh cut piece of metal from a bandsaw, with a burr left. Wave a torch over it and it glows red almost instantly while the rest of the part doesn't even have time to warm to the touch. This is bbl break in. Those tiny burrs that collect copper in the throat either go away or they don't and if they go away unevenly, this is what you'll have from now on, basically. The first rounds down the bbl are the most critical, imho.
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Coated rods hold abrasives, polished rods do not.
]Murray Brook
Silver $$ Contributor
@butchlambert What your take on the Tipton rods.
I like them but any rod that allows dirt and grit to embed in it becomes a lap. I did a test a few years back with a bbl stub, a ss rod and a carbon fiber rod. The results were night and day in favor of cf, believe it or not. The issue is that no matter the bore guide used, with only a few thou between the rod and the bore, every rod comes in contact with the bore when pushing a snug patch or brush down it. Simply, the rod flexes that little bit. The key is to wipe the rod down well as often as is practical. The dirt is what does the abrading. That said, NEVER hit a ss rod with the palm of your hand, etc, while it's in the bore. CF won't do it but ss is essentially a hammer inside the bbl when you hit it. The biggest issue I've found with cf is the possibility of it breaking and running right into your wrist. NOT good at all. I still plan to make some at some point but I bought some cf tubing and used 609 loctite to glue a metal rod inside of the cf tube, and put ends and a handle on them. They don't appear to be breakable and I think that does away with the biggest potential issue with a cf rod. I sure don't want anyone bleeding out from cleaning a gun!
Carbon fiber is controversial as a cleaning rod material but my test put that completely to rest, to me. Not even close!
butchlambert
Site $$ Sponsor
Carbon fiber rods are abrasive!! You will find if you take the time to search it the CF rods can shatter and people have impaled themself in the arm when it happened. You guys can use whatever you want, but a polished steel rod holds no abrasive. Jerry Stiller made the best and the were Melonited.
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Yessir, but anything is abrasive if it has dirt on it. I agree about cf breaking and impaling your wrist. Any place, IMO, is a bad place to be impaled but a splintered up cf rod end, in the wrist, just seems way nastier than your everyday impaling!
Like I said though, cf tube with a rod inside it appears to have stopped the possibility of it just breaking.
6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
Is a carbon fiber the same as a nylon coated like the one Dewey Ron's makes? They claim they do no allow embeddingYessir, but anything is abrasive if it has dirt on it. I agree about cf breaking and impaling your wrist. Any place, IMO, is a bad place to be impaled but a splintered up cf rod end, in the wrist, just seems way nastier than your everyday impaling!
Like I said though, cf tube with a rod inside it appears to have stopped the possibility of it just breaking.
No, two different materials. I'm not sure what coating is on the Dewey but it's pretty good a tough stuff. Can't say that nothing will embed in it though and I can't agree with their statement 100% in regard to that. Hell, even hardened steel will embed with dirt etc to a degree. As will cf, to a degree. I really don't think material of the rod is nearly as important as keeping whatever it is, clean. Harder is generally better but cf can't hammer the lands where a hard rod can. Both work. Just keep your rod clean!
Shooter13
Gold $$ Contributor
This is the reason I clean my rod(s) after each use.No, two different materials. I'm not sure what coating is on the Dewey but it's pretty good a tough stuff. Can't say that nothing will embed in it though and I can't agree with their statement 100% in regard to that. Hell, even hardened steel will embed with dirt etc to a degree. As will cf, to a degree. I really don't think material of the rod is nearly as important as keeping whatever it is, clean. Harder is generally better but cf can't hammer the lands where a hard rod can. Both work. Just keep your rod clean!
6.5 forever
Silver $$ Contributor
I wipe down my rod after EVERY pass. I hope it helps.
Gotta be better than the old 3 piece aluminum stuffed down the muzzle.....that was a long time ago.
Murray Brook
Silver $$ Contributor
Well after hearing of the wrist impaling I believe my Tipton rod will be retired. TKS for the info.
Dusty Stevens
Shiner
You can find more pictures of the aftermath if you look up carbon fiber arrows impaling peoples wrists. Those guys post pictures of the carnage
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