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UK style side charging details?

hpshooter

Gold $$ Contributor
Looking at the pictures of the UK side charging conversions it appears that they are using a rail on the side of the carrier to move the bolt handle to the rear to replicate the placement of a conventional bolt handle. This is a little different than what I normally see which is one hole drilled and taped in the carrier with a clearance slot milled in the upper for a socket head "bolt handle" to travel in.

Not rocket science to figure out but would like to have some first hand info on the conversion as they are doing it.

T W Hudson
 
TW ,even though the guns that you saw in the artical , thay are basical single shot , the gas operation has been removed .what you see is a castrated ar , the law on semi auto was change some years back .
even though thay the look like the origimal action thay are built as single shot , ie pull charge handle for each round..
conor m
 
Thanks for your reply Conor.

In fact that is what I want to do, make a straight pull AR10 with the bolt arrangement as shown in the article. Side charging conversions here are normally done on a semi auto bolt with small light bolt handles to survive the cycling. My interest is in duplicating the UK bolt arrangement on an AR10 style upper with no gas system installed and using a full profile 27" barrel.

Best regards
 
I believe it was White Oak Armament that once told me that they had to use reduced loads as the bolt was not designed to contain the full pressure of a non-reciprocating system. I, too, was toying with the idea of a single shot AR-10 but frankly after watching so many High Power shooters on the line winning matches with Tubb and Eliseo tube guns (essentially the same as a match AR in ergonomics) I decided that the small additional effort to lift a bolt before cycling it was moot.
 
All the straight-pull rifles seen in the CSR video will have been AR-15 based and likely also all .223s. (There are a few 6.8s and others, but 223 is the overwhelming choice for the platform.) Under UK law, the rifles cannot be converted semi-auto or selective fire weapons and have had to be designed and manufactured from scratch for manual operation. So there is a lot of mix and match with US supplied components, some machining, and a bit of use of custom made parts depending on the builder, his views, and his capabilities / facilities. Many builders take US made off the shelf 'uppers' that best suit their needs and machine them to accept operating handles, one has both them cast for him to his specs and does final machining in his workshop. Bolt carriers may be modified standard, custom made, or manufactured in-house. Barrels are as per US norms but are not drilled for a gas vent. Bolt gas rings are not used and all other gas operating parts are omitted, although you well still find the original carrier gas key in place solely to act as guide. Lowers are basically as per US semi-auto norm without any alterations although there should be a paper trail to show that the receiver was not manufactured to be part of a semi auto rifle.

There are four ways of operating the mechanism.

The oldest and least satisfactory is to use the original AR T-bar charging handle with or without bits added on to move the grasping ball or bar forward nearer to the trigger hand.

One is to mill a slot in the left hand side of the upper receiver and have a captive cocking / operating handle installed therein. A peg on the handle contacts the left front edge of the carrier. The main manufacturer of this system uses an FAL type folding handle. (Southern Gun Company)

The third is to mill a slot on the right hand side (actually can be either side) and to attach a much longer and sturdier handle to the carrier side using two bolts. This allows a lot more hand purchase and for much more pressure to be applied directly to the carrier - important with the AR design having no primary extraction cams and often suffering hard bolt opening with high pressure loads. The handle has to be removed for field stripping, but that's not onerous, a minute with an Allen key - just don't drop and lose the bolts if you're doing it outside behind the firing line.

All three of the above methods see the rifle mainspring retained so that hand operation is solely to open the bolt, extract and eject the fired case, reset the trigger and also to move the bolt assembly back through its full normal amount of movement in the upper receiver to either be locked open by empty magazine operation, or released at the end of its rearward travel for the normal AR operating cycle chambering a new cartridge etc to take place. Methods two and three are sometimes combined to give ambidextrous operation. In the video, everybody seen close-up uses their trigger hand and moves it between the trigger and operating handle. With practicve, this can be done VERY fast and with hardly any disturbance to the aim. With milder 223 loads, the right-hand can stay on the pistol-grip and the left used with the less powerful captive operating handle.

The final and much more controversial operating method is Southern Gun's 'Lever Release' system which is half way between semi-auto and manual. Gas operation kicks the bolt open as in a semi-auto AR but it is locked back until a thumb operated lever on the lower receiver is pushed to release it. It was developed for pistol calibre AR-type 'gallery rifles' used in UK Bianchi / 1500 / Police Pistol type shooting disciplines and competitions where short barrel carbines have replaced pistols and revolvers which are also 'Section 5 prohibited weapons' here, but SGC's Bob Clark has developed a 223 version. I'm not in he know as to how many, if any, of these have been made / sold. I'm not a High-Power or CSR competitor, but I don't think any are used in these disciplines.

The systems / methods have been applied to AR-10s with cartridges like 308, 260 and 6.5mm Hornady Creedmoor. (the same also applies to cartridges like the 6 and 6.5 Grendel in AR-15s.) They don't work very well due to the primary extraction issue and in fact have to be severley downloaded from bolt-action loads to work at all. Various operating handle bolt-ons have been made and tried to provide this, handles that swing through an arc working on a cam initially to do this job before hitting a stop to then pull straight back. The AR-10 is dead basically in this role, but there are sales of redesigned US made LMT rifles that apparently work at the very least reasonably well, for all I know very well, as straight-pulls. However for serious competition, I believe that bolt-actions are still preferred with the larger cartridges, custom built jobs, Accuracy International etc. AR-10s are also usually regarded as too heavy and cumbersome for CSR.

Re MTM's point as to White Oak Armaments' views on AR mechanisms being unable to withstand full pressures if the gas system is disconnected, I've not heard of that. The 15s use absolutely full-power European Nato ammunition loaded to 61,000 psi. This may be the case with hot larger cartridges in the AR-10s, but you download to get the damned action open without having to use both hands on the operating handle. (You think I'm joking don't you, but I'm deadly serious!) I can't comment on the LMT rifles, but if they can't shoot standard Nato ammo they're not of much use to many would-be buyers. We're also seeing straight pull SVD Dragunovs in 7.62X54R, FN FALs and M14s/M1As in 7.62 Nato, and the odd .30-06 M1 Garand etc and I've never heard of anything breaking or wearing out fast.
 
Serious question here. If someone is limited to an AR-platform rifle that can only be run manually, why not just go with a bolt rifle? Having personally shot many thousands of rounds with both AR's and bolt guns in competition, a manually-operated AR seems to me like all downside with no advantages of any sort over a bolt gun.
 
Erud said:
Serious question here. If someone is limited to an AR-platform rifle that can only be run manually, why not just go with a bolt rifle? Having personally shot many thousands of rounds with both AR's and bolt guns in competition, a manually-operated AR seems to me like all downside with no advantages of any sort over a bolt gun.

For 223 and 6.8 in rapid fire multi-position type comps, AR-15 based straight pulls are both more ergonomic and faster operating than any bolt gun. Back in 1988 when semi-autos were banned in the UK, bolt-guns had to be used as there wasn't anything else. A favourite back then was a heavily modified Remington 700 VS or PSS by Armalon Limited (still done) in 308 or 223 with M14 or AR-15 high-cap mags and new bottom metal (very innovative at the time). As soon as Southern Gun Company produced its first AR based SSR-15 Speedmaster, this type outsold everything else and just took over the basic classes in these disciplines. I'm told that a practised straight-pull AR-15 operator will get as many shots off and as accurately as most semi-auto AR-15 rifle shooters. We still envy you guys of course, and British shooters love any chance to shoot a semi-auto, usually on holidays in the US.

I'm not sure about the differences between GB High-Power and CSR disciplines apart from the fact that the latter is 'Service Rifle' therefore has to be based on a service and not civilian sporting / target model, but we do have a few Tubb T2K users in the former and lots of other bolt-guns.
 
Here are some photos from my days of owning such rifles, all Southern Gun of which two are AR-10 and four of an early Speedmaster AR-15 type. The AR-10 uses standard AR-10(T) receivers but classed as 'single-shot' and documented as supplied for a manually operated rifle build. It has a narrow slot milled above the operating port and the handle is bolted onto a fairly substantial steel block which replaces the carrier gas-key. It was built as a 308 and was a pig to operate. We rebarrelled it to 6.5 Hornady Creedmoor hoping that a shorter case would give easier extraction - it didn't! All in all, a pretty expensive disaster and I wouldn't recommend anybody to try it. The AR-10 needs gas power or a clever primary extraction cam system of operating handle.

The other four show an early SGC AR-15 which uses SGC's own design of receiver halves. The handle is bolted directly onto the right side of the carrier which SGC also makes to its own design. It worked very well in both 223 and 6.8 with 24-inch barrels, but I never used either rifle in rapid fire SR type disciplines where a 14-18 inch barrel would be the norm.

These are both SGC rifles. Other UK builders will use the same principles but with different components and likely apply the manual bits using different methods.
 

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Laurie, thanks for answering all of my questions. I had given no thought to the primary extraction problem.

As to the question of why do it I have all the components for both an AR-15 upper and an AR-10 upper at hand and the tooling to do the conversion plus having shot both a conventional bolt gun and a few Swiss K31's I felt I had less disruption of position in prone with the K31.

Disclaimer: I am not a gunsmith nor a machinist even though I have a lathe, mill and a surface grinder (but have not stayed in a Holiday Inn). Small projects that are in my realm of capability with my resources keep me thinking. Input from the real gunsmiths, machinist and marksman here give me the information needed to keep those projects safe and help me decide if the effort is worth it.

Respectfully,
T W Hudson
 

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