Twist rate for .45 Colt

[AAAOA]

I'm looking into getting a pistol caliber lever gun as my first real rifle and have settled on .45 Colt as I hope to one day get into hand loading, though I've run into an issue in my decision: the twist rates are all over the place.

Henry rifles and Cimarron 1892s report a 1:16 twist
New winchesters 1892s report a 1:26 twist
Rossi 92s report a 1:30 twist
Marlin 1894s report a 1:38 twist

All of these are 20" barrels

My general understanding is that faster rifling is better for longer and heavier bullets while slow rifling is better for shorter and lighter bullets. That may be wrong, please correct me if it is.

.45 colt is a rather short and heavy bullet and manufacturers complete inability to decide on a twist rate just further complicates the matter. I'm hoping to use it as a brush gun for deer, hogs, and maybe bear on the east coast at ranges of 100yds or less. This being the case I'd be looking at rounds between the 250 and 300 grain range with velocity between 1500fps and 1900fps to back it up. The issue is that, somehow someway, most owners report good accuracy out of all of these rifles though some report a little bit of tail wobble on the Marlin 1894s if you push past 300 grains.

Given the wide discrepancy between the twist rates and most owners reporting good accuracy, what twist rate would be best for some stout hunting loads such as a buffalo bore deer grenade and future handloads?

 

[mongo chicago]

A lot also depends on are you using lead or copper jacketed.

 

[AAAOA]

You know, I hadn't thought of that very much. Most ammo on the market seems to be copper jacketed lead, but some heavier loads are lead only. I suppose the coming of lead free ammo made of just copper is also something to consider.

Further research into this continues to say either a twist rate closer 1:20 is what should be used for a heavy 45 colt load or that it is too much and that the 1:38 is more than adequate for all but the most ludicrous 300+gr loads. Looks like there is a good bit more reading to do!

 

[longtrapshootn]

1 in 16
If you are gonna rebarrel go with a slower twist if you like heavy bullets.

 

[cmillard]

1-16 twist. Henry is the way to go! Do keep in mind though if you do heavier bullets, there may be some feeding issues so watch your over all length

 

[garandman]

1 in 16
If you are gonna rebarrel go with a slower twist if you like heavy bullets.

I thot heavies called for faster twists... they do in copper jackets, to stabilize them.

Are lead heavies different ?

 

[AJC]

Using lead changes the game. The type of rifling matters. Most of the marlin guys me included look for the Ballard guns to shoot lead. The purpose of the gun is a major driving factor. The velosity of the very light cowboy loads is very different than the requirements for a good hunting load. I would encourage you to use one of the stability calculators to check your desired range of ammunition in the intended location. This will provide you some factual information to made an educated decision or even compare offerings.

 

[AAAOA]

Definitely looking at heavier rounds as a focus over any cowboy loads. I may grab the odd pack of cheaper ammo here and there but cowboy shooting wouldn't be the focus. I have heard, however, that the marlin 1894s were very popular in the early days of CAS and have always had that slow rifling so that's confusing.

It may be worth my time to send an email off the buffalo bore or one of those other companies who make some slugger 45 colt rounds to see what they've found. Pretty sure BB has used Marlin 1894s and some winchester 1892s as test mules.

I am unable to find bullet length specifications for the .45 colt bullets on any manufacturers website. That is the only other thing I need in order to plug in for the stability calculators. Diameter, grain weight, velocity, etc are easy enough just not length for some odd reason. Where would I be able to find this info or what is a general ballpark for 250-300gr .452 bullets?

All the rifles I am looking at appear to have Ballard rifling, though some older Marlins may have micro grove. That shouldn't be an issue if I stick to new production. Between jacketed, lead, and lead free rounds what are the concerns when it comes to rifling twist rates?

 

[AJC]

oal on a 250 is very dependant on the shape but 1.570-1.600

 

[AJC]

Micro groove rifles are still common and i would also be looking at the older marlins as they went through a transition over the last few years that the quality went way down. Foutunecookie45lc has a few videos about this trend. He just picked up a new one this year and said they have improved a lot but still not back to the old quality. The easiest thing to see is the checkering issues where it looks like its pressed in, but its not deep or sharp and looks like garbage. The 45lc is one i would be looking at to hand load for sure, due to the costs of rounds. You may look for the 38/357 if you do not want to hand load. I have two and they are a hoot.

 

[Rsadams]

Ajc has it right , find an older Marlin , since they got bought out by remington , well enough said... To me the magic of the.45lc has to do with hard cast heavy bullets.. If your not into that , trying to reinvent the wheel will be hard....

 

[AAAOA]

Sent an email out to Buffalo bore to see what they have to say on the subject. Hoping to hear back soon.

Oddly enough, in 357 mag marlin has it down to a 1:16 twist just like other manufacturers. If I can't wrap my head around this whole barrel twist thing then that may be easier choice as that would be more of a quality and price issue.

I watched some of fortune cookies videos which seem to say that they function well but the finish just isn't as nice. I could live with that, plus my reading on microgroove vs ballard seems to say that so long as you upsize your rounds for microgroove you'll be okay for cast a jacketed rounds.

I have found a few 24" barrel 1894s in 45 colt, would an extra 4 inches of barrel cause a reasonable uptick in velocity with a slow powder or is it just a good way to spend an extra $500 on a rifle?

No one has said anything about the middle of the road twist rates from winchester and rossi, and there's support for 1:16 and 1:38. For now, I'll just hold off on anything until I hear back from buffalo bore.

 

[AAAOA]

So I got a response from the owner of Buffalo Bore on Friday but opted to wait a few days so as not to double post. According the owner they've found everything from the 1:16 Henrys to the 1:38 Marlins to stabilize even their 325gr rounds, but some rifles can not feed these heavier rounds.

 

[rogn]

I have the Rossi 20" short rifle in SS. I have never checked the twist, but will do so. I have been shooting Hornady's XTP 0.452" bullets with H110 just slightly under the maximum listed by Hodgdon Powder. The 300 gr XTP chronos about 1700FPS. Both the 250 gr and the 300 gr will 3 shot group from 1 1/2- 2" at 100 yds. Ive shot 3 wild hogs todate 2 were i shot kills and the 3rd shot running took a finishing shot. They ranged from about 175 to 400+ pounds.
The little rifles are a delight to carry and have more horsepressure than the 30-30.

 

[rogn]

Well, Ive made an attempt to measure the twist in this barrel. Its a tad difficult due to the short barrel and the big hole in it. When the rifling doesnt make a full turn you have to guess .As nearly as I can determine after several tries the average seems to be 3/4 of a turn in ~18.75". So quarter turn would equate to 6.25" and 4/4 would be in the region of 25"..-..+/- a finger nail and a grimace or two. Since its Brazilian and metric the actual twist could be a metric twin to an inche based twist rate, like 630mm or 625mm. Anyhow I feel confident my measurements are accurate within a 1/2M