Turned verses no turn necks?

[NorCalMikie]

Has anybody done a before and after test on the "actual" difference in accuracy between turned and non turned case necks?"
If your brass fits the chamber with the proper clearence and you can cover a 5 shot group with a dime on a "regular basis" with non turned case necks, what excatly would you be gaining by turning the case necks?
I'am from the no turn group and don't do compitition.
No wars or fighting please, just curious. All thoughts and opinions welcome. Thanks, Mike.

 

[Larryh128]

You can achieve very good results without neck turning. DEPENDING upon what brass you are using, what neck turning will do is give you a consistant (more) bullet release over non turning. If you are using Lapua brass, you're not going to see a big difference. However, with some other brands the dime will shrink to an pencil eraser. What I personally do, is simply uniform the neck after the 1st firing to .013. Most of the time you might only be shaving 1 side of the neck etc. You're looking to take out the high spots. The competition shooters are turning them thinner & shooting for about .002 clearance. That isn't your game & you only need to turn them once. What it will do is radically shrink your velocity spread. It will show more at long range than at 100 yds.

 

[bozo699]

You can achieve very good results without neck turning. DEPENDING upon what brass you are using, what neck turning will do is give you a consistant (more) bullet release over non turning. If you are using Lapua brass, you're not going to see a big difference. However, with some other brands the dime will shrink to an pencil eraser. What I personally do, is simply uniform the neck after the 1st firing to .013. Most of the time you might only be shaving 1 side of the neck etc. You're looking to take out the high spots. The competition shooters are turning them thinner & shooting for about .002 clearance. That isn't your game & you only need to turn them once. What it will do is radically shrink your velocity spread. It will show more at long range than at 100 yds.

Mike,
This is what I have found as well, not as much of a benefit at 100 but but the further out you go the less vertical you will have with the turned necks because of better ES in your velocities, but there are many other factors to accuracy and ES/SD then turned necks.
Wayne.

 

[bheadboy]

my experience is for deer hunting under 300yd- who cares, not the deer

however for pd at 300-500+ thereis a notable differance in vertical - so i
'skim"turn to about .013 and forget it

for serious target i turn all cases to a clean .0125 just for grins.

Bob

 

[jr600yd]

Their are two schools of thought pertaining to neck turning. Accuracy and Case Life. Since competition is not the game the accuracy question for you is "How accurate is accurate?" Moving to case life this is the theory: If your not using bushing dies the case neck is squeezed down during resizing then the expander button opens the neck back up to X diameter. For example a 308. Ever notice how hard it is to bring the press ram down once the case is in the sizing die? Ever hear a little squeak when the expander button passes thu the neck? By neck turning you allow a little more room for the case neck inside the sizing die thus reducing the stress on the neck. In theory this will extend case life with normal safe loads.

 

[NorCalMikie]

So far so good. Thanks Guys. Some very intereseting opinions.
Jim (jr600yd) mentioned about the .308 dies and the squeak?
I havn't used an expander ball in my dies for a long time.
All shoulder bumped and bushing sized. My brass lasts almost forever.
Looks like I may need to try some "long range" shooting to see if I'am able to tell any difference. Might even turn a few necks and see how it goes.
And like Larry (Larryh128) mentioned, going from 5 shot group covered with a dime to the size of a pencil eraser? That would really be fun. 8)

 

[BoydAllen]

In the case of purpose built competition rifles, the chamber is designed so that the desired clearance is maintained with the neck configuration that is being used. Unless your chamber is the right size, turning necks may not give any increase in accuracy due to the additional clearance created. But of course there is absolutely no harm in trying.

 

[alf]

In a competition gun, I want to turn necks.

It's one more variable I have control over, and I'll take any edge I can get.

While I've had tight necked varmint guns in the past, I'll take the no turns for those now.

There's so many little thing that go into shooting little groups, and the neck turning is just a small part of many that can contribute.......

 

[lynn]

NorCalMikie
You turn necks if you want consistant rounds.If you don't want consistant rounds you don't have to turn.
A dime covering your 5 shot group is great if your shooting a 6Dasher at 600 yards.;Bob Hoppe shot a 0.5823 group at Sacramento at 600 yards.
There used to be alot of talk on this forum that turned necks were a huge waste of time.I never agreed with that and posted such.
Now that Lapua changed it neck thickness on the 6BR brass all those guys with no neck-turn chambers now have hunting chamber clearances.I hate to say I told them so but I did.
If your pulling an expander ball through your brass and its squeaking you don't have the inside of the neck properly lubed.
Lynn

 

[bozo699]

NorCalMikie
You turn necks if you want consistant rounds.If you don't want consistant rounds you don't have to turn.
A dime covering your 5 shot group is great if your shooting a 6Dasher at 600 yards.;Bob Hoppe shot a 0.5823 group at Sacramento at 600 yards.
There used to be alot of talk on this forum that turned necks were a huge waste of time.I never agreed with that and posted such.
Now that Lapua changed it neck thickness on the 6BR brass all those guys with no neck-turn chambers now have hunting chamber clearances.I hate to say I told them so but I did.
If your pulling an expander ball through your brass and its squeaking you don't have the inside of the neck properly lubed.Lynn

I agree with that 100% and a side note I have shot with those Hoppe Brothers in Montana, and they both can really shoot.
Wayne.

 

[Heavies]

I'd like to see how much vertical improvement from unturned versus skim turned versus clean turned in a 'no turn' chamber. Say at 600?

Any one done this experiment?



Mike you read my mind with this topic.

 

[ourway77]

Had a whole lot of questions lost the reply D#@! computer, Well not stealing mikes thread but I PM him with the very same questions that most have been answered. I got a Encore Bullberry 22BR 15" barrel that is very accurate. I got it used but the fellow I got it from wasn't lyin' when he said how accurate it was dime groups at 100 yards. He sent me R&P brass and some loaded ammo that had been neck turned from 7BR to 22BR Being such a drastic necking down from 7BR to 22BR could the brass have flowed requiring neck turning? I have new Lapua brass 6BR that I will load do you think that I should try and see what kind if accuracy I get w/o neck turning as the down sizing is not as drastic as from 7BR? Wonder why 22BR brass is not available? Atleast I know of none. Also should I neck down the Lapua 6br brass and try the empty brass in the 22br and will I experience some sort of problems and will the neck show signs or marks that would be an indication that the barrell has a tight neck? Hope you can understand my questions. Thanks Lou

 

[NorCalMikie]

Lou: You'll need the neck measurements of a loaded round with the necked down Lapua brass to find the difference between the round and chamber measurements.
Measure the loaded Remington round and compare it to a loaded (dummy) Lapua round. Be real nice to know the actual neck measurements of the barrel chamber. That would give you an idea of which way you have to go. Turn or no turn?
Maybe you can get by using some of the newer Lapua blue box brass??

 

[brian427cobra]

Mikie I have noticed a great improvement in my short range groups and long range hits since I started skimming Win 7-08 that is necked down to 260 Rem, I have also noted a reduction of unexplained flyers, and greatly improved concentricity, prior to turning my best group was a .350 at 100, now I have gotten groups in the .150's and I hit a golf ball at 1k last month, it was a second round hit, I don't know yet if all this work is worth it in Practical\Tactical matches but to me it has given me a confidence boost.