Too much vertical with Berger Hybrids...

[mgx1138]

I am shooting the Berger 140 hybrid in my 6.5x284... no problem with vertical at 1000. I am loading those guys 10 thou off the lands. H4350 and CCI BR2s.

 

[6BRinNZ]

If the shooter cannot correctly identify, characterize and manage the conditions at 600 or 1000, the results are just as misleading as using a cheap chrono at 100.

I agree ...... good input !.!.!

Off topic but Erics thread on 100 yard development is the most useful I have seen in how to approach load development. Sure it doesn't list all of the caveats, but it does provide some basic principles that can be easily interpreted. Chances are; it will produce a load more than good enough that the newer shooter is better focused on gun handling and wind skills than tweaking further.

I agree ....... and compliment Eric to his intentions and the devotion he has set forth to the thread !.!.!

Donovan Moran

Doesn't mean to say you get to quit posting on load dev - I have learnt plenty from your posts.

 

[eww1350]

About 6" of vertical at 400 yards...!

 

[Steve Blair]

About 6" of vertical at 400 yards...!

[br]
As was asked above, what are the chrono numbers?

 

[eww1350]

I don't have any collected to show std dev...just shot 3 shot groups for load development...velocity at about 2960+...

 

[Steve Blair]

That much vertical would be a huge velocity spread, about 220 fps. How about your setup? What is your front rest and rear bag configuration?

 

[338 Mollett]

A good friend of mine does all his testing at 100 yds for f class.His name is Jim Murphy, Just my opinion but I think he shoots pretty straight, that is what works for him.I am most comfortable testing at 300 and 500 yds especially in no wind conditions.I am a bow hunter by trade never killed a deer with a gun never will, unless family hungry.The point is,as in bow hunting you are the only man in the theater looking at the show no one else that's the beauty of it win or lose .Not many times in today's world do we get to do something on our terms.That being said o' l Murph tried to get me on a 7mm for 5 years but I jacked around with the .338's and fell flat on my arsh .Sorry if I fell on others equipment at the line LOL .Each man has to ask himself did I learn more from the fall or the rise.

 

[Erik Cortina]

To the OP, you need to shoot over a good chronograph and see what your numbers look like.
What kind of gun do you have?
Bedded?
Scope?
Front rest?
Rear bag?
Vertical spread at 1,000 yards?

There are many factors that can induce vertical, even the shooter!

 

[jlow]

I don't have any collected to show std dev...just shot 3 shot groups for load development...velocity at about 2960+...

It's not hard to imagine that with only 3 shot groups and no chrono data that you may in fact have no confirmation that you are even in a node.

 

[6BRinNZ]

I think the answer is in how you selected the load. I doubt your numbers are so bad that it alone is causing the vertical.

With the 6.5x.284 you can keeping shooting it and the hybrids will soon be jumping and it will probably come right

 

[Alex Wheeler]

To the OP,
Many times in my quest for the flatest load at long range I have had the same problem. If you have a good chrony by all means use it. I also shoot 1000 competition, and used to be a big chono guy. But, have seen the same phenomenon. Can't explain it, but a good load at 100, with or with good E.S., may not shoot at 1000.
With my dasher, 10 fps equals 1.5'' at 1000 yards. That is not generated data, that is actual test data. A bad load will give more than 10'' of vertical, but not a 70 fps spread.
I would be interested in your chrony data on the load that works at 100 but give 6'' at 400 if you can find a chrony to use.

 

[eww1350]

Thanks,..everyone...I will go back to the range with chronograph and work with seating depth/powder charge to see if resolve the problem...


Eddie in Texas

 

[expiper]

eww,,,,,you dont need a chrony,,,your target is(SHOUTING AT UUU) telling you way moor,,,,you either need more powder or more jump (or both),,,Roger
PS,,or more neck tension/smaller bushing,,,,,more-more,,,never less,,,hahaha

 

[chuckbuster243]

I have experienced the same sort of results in 308 185 hybrid testing. Not quite to the extreme but close. I first started where most thought that they should shoot best (.010 jump) I powder tuned at 200 and got some really good groups. So I shot a few 1000 yard matches and did ok but had some flyers. So me and my shooting buddy went to a friends field and shot at 1000 in a no wind condition. Shot my .010 jump load and had 4 shots inside 4" and one about 4" outside that group! So I started changing seating depths in .005 increments until the groups got better. My best groups ended up being at .030" jump! It resulted in a nice even round 5" inch group. I went another day to try the same load again and shot a round 4" group... And the funny thing is my friends 284 shehane tuned with the 180 hybrids at the same depth as well. So jump is a good thing with the hybrids. Matt

 

[jaygorski]

Try a 295 bushing and seat those Hybrids a bit deeper.

 

[vervi1jw]

Check the length of the bearing surface on the bullets. I have a customer who was shooting Bergers and had bought 2000 in the same lot. The meplants looked good. The weights were all with in .1 grain. the overall lengths were with in .0015" of each other. He was having unexplained verticals. He went back and measured the length of the bearing surfaces and they varied .030". He sorted them and then shot a comparison and this was the issue. He addressed it with Berger and they said they knew about the issue. They made no effort to replace the 400+ bullets that were different from the remaining 1600 bullets.
The variance in bearing surface caused a difference in muzzle velocity.
Nat Lambeth

+1
I was getting at least one or more vertical shots in at in every 20 shot string. I took a little bit of time with an ogive comparator to sort out a box of 100, 140gr Hybrids. Most were very uniform but out of the 100 around 12 were out quite a ways. Last match prior to sorting my 1st string of the last match I saw 2 x ring sighters, Next five shots were 5x rings for record, and then a 9 ring high. I think I was cost some points but I won't know for sure until the next match this weekend. Other than that, accuracy has been fantastic with the hybrids at 15 thou off the lands in a 260AI.

 

[Buck 89]

I know Danny Biggs test at 100 and 200 sometime and has set all kinds of records at 1000.