Too many midrange cleans!

[CharlieNC]

FWIW - there is nothing at all wrong with giving F-Class a tryout at 300 yd, if that driving distance proves more convenient for you. The target scoring rings of the 300 yd MR63FC target are slightly reduced in size (i.e. 1.42" X- ring instead of 1.5" that would be the usual ~0.5 MOA X-ring for an F-Class target), making it plenty challenging. Top competitors will drop few, if any, points and shoot high X-counts at 300 yd unless the wind conditions are really tough. In fact, shooting in a 300 yd match is a very good way to fine-tune your shooting skills for matches at longer distances, because there is so little room for error.

BEWARE - once you do this, you WILL be an F-Class shooter (i.e. hooked). That won't mean your dissenting and anarchist opinions regarding F-Class rules will be any more warmly received , but you will the better for the new addiction. Seriously, best of luck with it and let us know how it works out for you.

No 20X record for 300yd Ftr! I witnessed one a few weeks ago, but not a registered match. The kid beat me on X count, first time I recall he shot Ftr instead of open.

 

[Ned Ludd]

No 20X record for 300yd Ftr! I witnessed one a few weeks ago, but not a registered match. The kid beat me on X count, first time I recall he shot Ftr instead of open.

He did it solely to vex you .

I used to participate in a 300 yd club match in San Diego, but the match format was 3x15 shots rather than 3x20 shots. Once, I shot a 150-15X...but only once. It's not easy with a 1.42" X-ring, even though it would seem as though the relatively short 300 yd distance should markedly increase scores and X-counts. I enjoyed shooting that particular 300 yd monthly match a LOT; I wish that format was offered where I currently live and shoot.

 

[Jdne5b]

Jerry, you should talk MSSA into buying a box of MR65FC (500yd) targets and shoot a match or two on them at 600. See if it helps any.

 

[memilanuk]

Correct me if I'm wrong Monte but isn't the SoA match traditionally a sling match? Kind of like the Sierra Cup or most other regional/state matches. Sling and Class intermix.

Everything was 'traditionally a sling match', until F-class shooters actually showed up. Technically, because of the way the NRA handles match scores, the match director has to submit a separate 'match' on paper for the sling side of things and another for the F-class shooters in order to be able to report the scores. So in theory, yeah, a match director could say "F-class isn't welcome" or "you can shoot, but your scores won't count for anything". Given the state of sling shooting in general, that's probably not the smartest move. Case in point: the BERC @ the Whittington Center, that runs the matches there, has played those kind of silly reindeer games in the past, and it's come back to haunt them.

Also, High Power shooting is separate from "sling/Fclass".

Negative. You are conflating 'High Power' with 'Across the Course'. There is 'HIgh Power Rifle', which encompasses both Across the Course matches, and Prone matches. Prone events generally include F-class. They are literally *all* in the same rule book - for HIgh Power Rifle. And then there is the 'International Fullbore' rule book, which also incorporates both sling and F-class. F-class is a sub-set of the overall High Power or Fullbore rules - not some separate entity. Whether that's a good thing or not is a separate topic for debate.

 

[Jdne5b]

F-class is a sub-set of the overall High Power or Fullbore rules - not some separate entity. Whether that's a good thing or not is a separate topic for debate.

we gotta save something to argue about in February after everyone except the Arizonans have been couped up for 4 months.

 

[CharlieNC]

He did it solely to vex you .

I used to participate in a 300 yd club match in San Diego, but the match format was 3x15 shots rather than 3x20 shots. Once, I shot a 150-15X...but only once. It's not easy with a 1.42" X-ring, even though it would seem as though the relatively short 300 yd distance should markedly increase scores and X-counts. I enjoyed shooting that particular 300 yd monthly match a LOT; I wish that format was offered where I currently live and shoot.

All of our local matches are 3x20 at 300yd where all 20 are shot and scored upon completion. No pits or target. Depending on the light there there is not much feedback during the match, primarily a shoot n see for zeroing. Surprises abound!

 

[BobbyJ]

FWIW - there is nothing at all wrong with giving F-Class a tryout at 300 yd, if that driving distance proves more convenient for you. The target scoring rings of the 300 yd MR63FC target are slightly reduced in size (i.e. 1.42" X- ring instead of 1.5" that would be the usual ~0.5 MOA X-ring for an F-Class target), making it plenty challenging. Top competitors will drop few, if any, points and shoot high X-counts at 300 yd unless the wind conditions are really tough. In fact, shooting in a 300 yd match is a very good way to fine-tune your shooting skills for matches at longer distances, because there is so little room for error.

BEWARE - once you do this, you WILL be an F-Class shooter (i.e. hooked). That won't mean your dissenting and anarchist opinions regarding F-Class rules will be any more warmly received , but you will the better for the new addiction. Seriously, best of luck with it and let us know how it works out for you.

That is exactly what I am worried about. New gun scope, stand, etc.

Yes I get it I am not part of the "Club" yet so my thoughts don't count. I think I will just buy a 300 yard Fclass target go to closest 300 yard range and see how badly I do. Do people even use 223 in them now?

 

[Tarmacshooter]

That is exactly what I am worried about. New gun scope, stand, etc.

Yes I get it I am not part of the "Club" yet so my thoughts don't count. I think I will just buy a 300 yard Fclass target go to closest 300 yard range and see how badly I do. Do people even use 223 in them now?

I"m hearing a lot of excuses on your part.

If you do your research on the subject you will find that most if not all clubs are VERY welcoming to new people. Its a run what you brung environment. If you want advice on what to do or how to do it, most are VERY generous with their time and knowledge. As with our club, there is also a high probability that people will allow you to shoot their guns.

As to your question, absolutely yes, people still shoot .223. Just like any competitive sport there are advantages and disadvantages to the choice in equipment.

At this point, I wish BobbyJ the best in his future endeavors. To the OP, I think the answers are here.

Good luck everyone.

 

[BobbyJ]

I"m hearing a lot of excuses on your part.

If you do your research on the subject you will find that most if not all clubs are VERY welcoming to new people. Its a run what you brung environment. If you want advice on what to do or how to do it, most are VERY generous with their time and knowledge. As with our club, there is also a high probability that people will allow you to shoot their guns.

As to your question, absolutely yes, people still shoot .223. Just like any competitive sport there are advantages and disadvantages to the choice in equipment.

At this point, I wish BobbyJ the best in his future endeavors. To the OP, I think the answers are here.

Good luck everyone.

LOL my bag of excuses is out I need to borrow some

I am interested but I think I would need a different barrel and twist, Really a new gun. And the drive makes its tougher to do it often. I would have to practice at 200 then go to a match and shoot 600.
It would be fun to try. I would have low expectations and doubt I will be back here crying for smaller targets.

Looks like the season around here is over so I have time to research. Maybe I will start another thread on getting me geared up.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

LOL my bag of excuses is out I need to borrow some

I am interested but I think I would need a different barrel and twist, Really a new gun. And the drive makes its tougher to do it often. I would have to practice at 200 then go to a match and shoot 600.
It would be fun to try. I would have low expectations and doubt I will be back here crying for smaller targets.

Looks like the season around here is over so I have time to research. Maybe I will start another thread on getting me geared up.

You really should go to one and try it out. Theyll get you on paper. Youll be fine running what you brung. Once you go check one out just plan on not coming in last then do better next time. Youll have plenty of help and fun.

 

[BobbyJ]

Only one way to find out. I would suggest shooting a match to see how you do. My guess is that you will not shoot a clean.

I would say that is a good guess. I hope I don't because if I go in and score 95 percent would be like a rookie golfer shooting under 72 (Not likely) or new bowler bowling 300, 300, 280.

If its difficulty is like shooting a easy free throw. I think NBA average (best players in world) is around 80 percent with some higher and some lower. I'm not NBA material so lets say I shoot 80 percent.

.8 x 600 = 460!! Then I will be shooting as good as the average pro basketball player. What If I shoot as good as the best NBA percentage in history around 90 percent

.9 x 600 = 560!!! If I get 560 I'm the Stephen Curry class shooting.

But what if they made the free throw line closer like 2 feet from the hoop? Then maybe Everyone even shack is 90+ percentage. Now Shack can say his FT ability is as good as Larry Birds.

So If its the same difficulty as free throws I should score 460 and with little chance of clean perfect scores.

 

[Walt Krafft]

With your Shotmarker you can easily change the target of a fired string and see what it does to the score.

 

[Rset]

I would say that is a good guess. I hope I don't because if I go in and score 95 percent would be like a rookie golfer shooting under 72 (Not likely) or new bowler bowling 300, 300, 280.

If its difficulty is like shooting a easy free throw. I think NBA average (best players in world) is around 80 percent with some higher and some lower. I'm not NBA material so lets say I shoot 80 percent.

.8 x 600 = 460!! Then I will be shooting as good as the average pro basketball player. What If I shoot as good as the best NBA percentage in history around 90 percent

.9 x 600 = 560!!! If I get 560 I'm the Stephen Curry class shooting.

But what if they made the free throw line closer like 2 feet from the hoop? Then maybe Everyone even shack is 90+ percentage. Now Shack can say his FT ability is as good as Larry Birds.

So If its the same difficulty as free throws I should score 460 and with little chance of clean perfect scores.

Well, that is going to depend on your existing skill set for one.
Second, This is not basketball, golf, or any other sport you want to mention.
Maybe you shoot like crap, maybe you shoot well, maybe you even shoot very well, the point is, I doubt you will clean, but who knows?
So...... before you keep stirring the pot, why not go shoot a match and come back with some real world answers? Yours, not anyone else's because who cares anyway.
Maybe it's not for you. No worries, I don't like basketball, I find it boring and a waste of my time. Same goes for most other sports where I am not participating in them.
Maybe you find that it interests you. Welcome aboard if you do.
Go shoot a match and report your findings. I'm interested in what you find for yourself. Not that it will affect my enjoyment of the sport in any way. We are all different for a reason and I for one think the world would be a terribly boring place if we were all the same.

 

[BobbyJ]

Well, that is going to depend on your existing skill set for one.
Second, This is not basketball, golf, or any other sport you want to mention.
Maybe you shoot like crap, maybe you shoot well, maybe you even shoot very well, the point is, I doubt you will clean, but who knows?
So...... before you keep stirring the pot, why not go shoot a match and come back with some real world answers? Yours, not anyone else's because who cares anyway.
Maybe it's not for you. No worries, I don't like basketball, I find it boring and a waste of my time. Same goes for most other sports where I am not participating in them.
Maybe you find that it interests you. Welcome aboard if you do.
Go shoot a match and report your findings. I'm interested in what you find for yourself. Not that it will affect my enjoyment of the sport in any way. We are all different for a reason and I for one think the world would be a terribly boring place if we were all the same.

I'm agreeing odds are I won't clear. I'm putting myself at rookie level not in same class as you guys.

Goal is 80 percent a 460 if I do higher its a win for me. Might come in last but thats ok.

I can't shoot right now no matches. I would if I could but I can't so I shant.

None of my analogies had to do with me liking or not liking that particular sport. And I am not saying I am at the level of any Fclass shooter. I was just looking at the scores and comparing it to other competitive sports. Adjustments are made all the time to sports. Football they moved the FGs back further because it was too much of a sure thing now they have more misses. I don't need to have shot Fclass to make that analysis. If everyone is scoring 95 percent hits (570) I can understand why "Some" might want that lowered and there are many ways to do that. It probably would cause a greater separation between the top shooters from the average shooters. Which maybe why people might want it left as is.

I am not saying or suggesting to do anything just looking at the OPs viewpoint. Majority rules, if the majority of shooters are happy with high percentage scores I don't see why they would worry about having it changed. One OP wanting it is just one person there is always going to be someone not happy with rules. I just respect his right to state his opinion even if I may not agree with it.

I read they were changed back in ? 2007 or so. Was that one person making that decision or based on a majority of shooters wanting it? Was there a big uproar over the change back then?

I guess I don't understand why just the mere mention or talk about rule changes upsets people. Do you think this forum will change Fclass rules based on this thread?

 

[Rset]

Do you think this forum will change Fclass rules based on this thread?

My guess is no.
As for your own performance in F-Class, who knows.
I have seen people shoot clean (not all X's) in their first year.
I have also seen people who took a decade or more to accomplish that same feat. If your not having fun, you won't care. If you are having fun, who cares what other people think.
Life is to be enjoyed, you have to decide how, I would encourage you to try this if you think you might enjoiy it. Won't cost a lot pf time or money (in relative terms) to find out.

 

[BobbyJ]

My guess is no.
As for your own performance in F-Class, who knows.
I have seen people shoot clean (not all X's) in their first year.
I have also seen people who took a decade or more to accomplish that same feat. If your not having fun, you won't care. If you are having fun, who cares what other people think.
Life is to be enjoyed, you have to decide how, I would encourage you to try this if you think you might enjoiy it. Won't cost a lot pf time or money (in relative terms) to find out.

No question I want to try it just a matter of finding time and a event. Next spring maybe. I enjoy shooting so it should be fun.

 

[chkunz]

Is it time to half the size of the midrange f class target? Or would it be better to limit midrange to a 120 grain bullet? Thoughts

We did that already.

F Class was first shot on the standard NRA target and soon after it became an NRA discipline, the scoring rings for F Class were reduced, X ring became F Class ten ring, ten ring became F Class 9 ring, etc. I do not shoot F Class (yet) and am not for or against a target change, just giving some history for consideration. I still shoot "sling" and appreciate the target for that discipline.

 

[cmysix]

If you shoot 20x - you keep shooting until you drop one.

And that would be a rare and exciting match to watch.

I have watched trap shoot offs and your right! very exciting! he drops one now the other guy can't.

 

[cmysix]

1/4 inch black ball on a fine wire steel post. first one to hit it wins, there you go......

 

[Tempest]

I'll pour some gas on the fire!

No, the targets should not be changed.

However, I've often said, the % for M and HM should not be the same for FTR and Open. Unless FTR can shoot F Open weight and caliber other than .223/.308.