Too many midrange cleans!

[Albany Mountain]

I don't shoot Fclass but a saw a video of a 600 yard match. Noticed they allow coaching and other people helping and telling them were to aim also some had the guns on recoil rails which seems like cheating. Do they allow remote triggers too?

If you want more of a challenge get rid of all that stuff and let just the shooters shoot and call their own wind with no headsets telling him anything.

I thought if they tied they used the zero point Xs (true bullseyes) to pick a winner.

Are you saying there is like 50 round sudden death shoot offs all the time? I can see if people run out of ammo it cold be a problem.

Is a 60 out of 60 like a 300 in bowling? rare but it happens?

Coaching is only allowed in team matches not individual..

 

[Warren Dean]

The latter. In all fairness, we are all talking about Fclass. Ive never witnessed a 200.20x at LR or MR, let alone a 600.60x.

Further X’s only count in instances of ties. 600’s are a rare thing. If your range produces a lot of 600’s. Time to shoot elsewhere because it’s a range that is conducive to trigger pulling contests.

True, We are a long way from many cleans in a match. Maybe we should let it ride for a while.

 

[Warren Dean]

Maybe... if you don't shoot the sport... you should abstain from interjecting your opinion in a thread regarding the rules of said sport. You really, really don't have the fundamental understanding to contribute anything useful to the discussion at hand.

^^^^^^^
What he said

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

Thanks guys . Great conversation on the point. Just looking to the future. These young guns are hammering and cleaning more and more and they are our future and our sport’s future. As supplies and rifles become more accurate, as they have in the recent years, cleans are inevitable.

 

[BobbyJ]

The OP has an incorrect assumption. Again, come out and try it.

You are making assumptions based on a video and someone else’s assumptions. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Ok im comming out! Where?
I'm in Michigan I just looked and don't see many Fclass 600 yard events saw one in Sept 2022 about 3 hours north of me. I would have to go in cold with zero 600 yard shots taken. I don't have any 600 yard ranges near me to practice on.

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

Last months MSSA F CLASS match

 

[Tarmacshooter]

Ok im comming out! Where?
I'm in Michigan I just looked and don't see many Fclass 600 yard events saw one in Sept 2022 about 3 hours north of me. I would have to go in cold with zero 600 yard shots taken. I don't have any 600 yard ranges near me to practice on.

There are matches in Michigan. Used to be more. You sound jaded and won’t have fun.

 

[BobbyJ]

There are matches in Michigan. Used to be more. You sound jaded and won’t have fun.

Jaded? Is this how Fclass shooters recruit? Talking them out of trying?

I'm a Lions Fan we make the most of anything.
I have fun where ever I go. Even bad movies can be fun.

 

[D-4297]

After shooting F-Class TR at Ben Avery for nearly seven years now , I have recorded 3 , 200 - 20x Targets . I average twice a week and always shoot two strings . Five sighters , and twenty for record . If you want to think about changing the Target ? Consider the scores of Both Open , and TR from the just finished Nationals at Ben Avery . Never saw so many disgruntled Top Tier shooters come off the line anywhere . And I spent a lot of time at Perry growing up . IT AIN'T BROKE ! STOP TRYING TO FIX IT !

 

[Elwood]

Is it time to half the size of the midrange f class target? Or would it be better to limit midrange to a 120 grain bullet? Thoughts

Start shooting in pairs, Bisley style. Sure cleans will still happen, but not as frequently.

 

[efoleyjr]

Is it time to half the size of the midrange f class target? Or would it be better to limit midrange to a 120 grain bullet? Thoughts

You could just put a sling on the gun, wear a jacket and shoot from the shoulder. That would greatly reduce the number of cleans.

Ed

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

Start shooting in pairs, Bisley style. Sure cleans will still happen, but not as frequently.

Love the idea of pairfire

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

You could just put a sling on the gun, wear a jacket and shoot from the shoulder. That would greatly reduce the number of cleans.

Ed

Takes a real man to shoot sling. Unbelievable what you guys do

 

[jelenko]

View attachment 1380034

But, no 600-60X's. I don't shoot F class, but to me these scores indicate 600-60x is still a ways off.

With the equipment that's available today, isn't it already about the shooters skills? And, at these levels highly dependent on wind reading?

 

[Rochelle Jerry]

But, no 600-60X's. I don't shoot F class, but to me these scores indicate 600-60x is still a ways off.

With the equipment that's available today, isn't it already about the shooters skills? And, at these levels highly dependent on wind reading?

Absolutely dependent on wind reading. I know we aren’t reaching 600-60x yet but some have. Just trying to spark a thought for the future. That’s why my topic was questions. Asking for knowledgeable answers and thoughts.
I thought with a smaller target or lower bullet bc … it might help competitors more ready themselves for the 1000 yard challenges, seeing how the 1k ranges are far and in between for most.

 

[M99]

I don't shoot Fclass but a saw a video of a 600 yard match. Noticed they allow coaching and other people helping and telling them were to aim also some had the guns on recoil rails which seems like cheating. Do they allow remote triggers too?

If you want more of a challenge get rid of all that stuff and let just the shooters shoot and call their own wind with no headsets telling him anything.

I thought if they tied they used the zero point Xs (true bullseyes) to pick a winner.

Are you saying there is like 50 round sudden death shoot offs all the time? I can see if people run out of ammo it cold be a problem.

Is a 60 out of 60 like a 300 in bowling? rare but it happens?

Not true in any Approved or Registered match. No coaching permitted. However, in local club matches, with new shooters, we do try to help them out so they can learn. We want more new shooters so we encourage them that way. Its not cheating. In a 'Team Match' a coach is approved for the team shoot only.

 

[davidjoe]

Our Sportsman club range is 200 yards we do shoot targets and clays just not 600 yards. I never said I don't shoot just not tried F-Class. Rail guns? No the video I linked has some rests that look to have slides rails on them for recoil so the gun moves straight back. I'm sure they are legal and maybe allow more hits.

The OP had an opinion on the amount of cleans shooting targets. I was thinking of trying it but not if its too easy. The OP made it sound like it was getting too easy to have good scores. It could be he is wrong or maybe the technology has advanced to a point where a higher percentage of people are bunched together and its become a game of loads best barrel and the shooter skill has taken a back seat.

I've done PCP competitions where the equipment wars take over, so we changed to free hand shooting which flipped things the best guns were not winning all of a sudden.

Maybe the same thing has happened to F Class, the OP seems to think so. One way to get more info is from people right here on this site.

You won’t be disappointed, or find it to be too easy, if you try it. While they may make it “look” easy in a posted video, if it’s of a team match, that snap shot is the culmination of the shooter’s refinements and improvement over many matches per year for many years. No one goes straight on to a team. Also, videos do tend to be selected from good, not bad, performances, as more can be learned that way.

If you want the gear or positions to be less conducive to accurate shot placement, or to be more taxing on the body, then yes, F-Class may not be the ideal discipline. But if the goal is to test your wind reading skills and bench work, and rifle decisions, the deepest pool of serious completion to see where you shake out is in F-Class. Shooting the gun appreciably well by any other standard is not the difficult part, finishing near the top is.

 

[David Milisock]

You won’t be disappointed, or find it to be too easy, if you try it. While they may make it “look” easy in a posted video, if it’s of a team match, that snap shot is the culmination of the shooter’s refinements and improvement over many matches per year for many years. No one goes straight on to a team. Also, videos do tend to be selected from good, not bad, performances, as more can be learned that way.

If you want the gear or positions to be less conducive to accurate shot placement, or to be more taxing on the body, then yes, F-Class may not be the ideal discipline. But if the goal is to test your wind reading skills and bench work, and rifle decisions, the deepest pool of serious completion to see where you shake out is in F-Class. Shooting the gun appreciably well by any other standard is not the difficult part, finishing near the top is.

I find it interesting that what has been done for years is being challenged and in my opinion the day that you have 2 perfect scores then the system needs refined. My advice is that you always bring lots of extra ammo for a shoot off in case of a ties. But you don't have any problem until those ties are perfect scores on a regular basis.

When regular perfect scores happen then the test no longer sufficiently challenges the technology and skill.

 

[Tarmacshooter]

I find it interesting that what has been done for years is being challenged and in my opinion the day that you have 2 perfect scores then the system needs refined. My advice is that you always bring lots of extra ammo for a shoot off in case of a ties. But you don't have any problem until those ties are perfect scores on a regular basis.

When regular perfect scores happen then the test no longer sufficiently challenges the technology and skill.

Anyone witness or hear of a shoot out? I don’t think we have those in Fclass. Creedmore rules solve that.