To anneal or not to anneal is the ?

[sksshooter]

Alright guys need some experience here. Im going to lay out my process and terget results im just a hunter trying to produce more consistant and available hunting ammo for my family. Im not making big dollar hunts etc just a family oriented lease that kills some meat deer and the occasional nice rack.

I load my hunting rounds on a rock chucker
Dies are just standard dies
Use matching headstamp brass only But not premium brass. Basicaly winchester, federal and hornady depending on caliber

I fl size every time, trim if necessary and chamfer/deburr.

I use a wet tumbler with pins for cleaning.

On my federal brass i get short life which seems to be expected. Im stashing wichester to replace the federal 270wsm as it works itself out.

THE BIG ? Is it worth it for me to anneal brass? If so what is the appropriate process to look at. Ive seen from basic cake pans of water with brass standing and using a torch. All the way to the nice automated options. The main reason im asking is while i normally dont burn through a ton of brass. The times have changed and components are scarce. Should i start annealing to conserve my brass or just keep running to failure and hope i can keep rrplacing them? Will i even make any progress? Seems accros the board federal just fails early. Could i get much more if i annealed it?

 

[Chiquita]

I anneal because consensus was annealing is better than not. You will hear from both sides of the isle. I don't have resources to prove one over the other. So decided to anneal and get it out of the way.





Besides I get to have a ool machine on mmy bench.

 

[sksshooter]

I anneal because consensus was annealing is better than not. You will hear from both sides of the isle. I don't have resources to prove one over the other. So decided to anneal and get it out of the way.





Besides I get to have a ool machine on mmy bench.

Thats where i keep getting hung up... everyone says absolutely you should anneal. BUT most of these folks are shooting benchrest type matches. I have zero doubt that those guys are going well above what i will likely ever approach based on my current needs. Im already an ocd person and struggle to keep from going down the rabbit hole for hunting ammo. At rhe same time i keep coming back to the question of should i be doing something to preserve my beass so i can maintIn...

 

[Gargoyle]

Annealing keeps the neck tension consistent. I had necks get so work hardened it took a lot of pressure to seat the bullet, like very noticeably more pressure. Annealed and they seated like usual. My shoulder bumps on FL sizing stay in .001" consistency.

Annealing Machine Running!

Going all night boys!

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[sksshooter]

Annealing keeps the neck tension consistent. I had necks get so work hardened it took a lot of pressure to seat the bullet, like very noticeably more pressure. Annealed and they seated like usual. My shoulder bumps on FL sizing stay in .001" consistency.

Annealing Machine Running!

Going all night boys!

forum.accurateshooter.com

Ha, your post actually prompted me to ask the question. It seems like it could be such an easy process but... i have worked in a couple fab shops etc when i was younger and know that heat can do some awsome things to metals when controlled properly. My problem always comes back to ive seen what happens when you under or over heat metal as wll... that makes the automated machines more appealing for sure. I have also used a product which was either tempilaq or very similar with excellent results. Kinda standing on that cliff waiting for the right reason to jump in but want the right hardware also...

 

[Gargoyle]

Ha, your post actually prompted me to ask the question. It seems like it could be such an easy process but... i have worked in a couple fab shops etc when i was younger and know that heat can do some awsome things to metals when controlled properly. My problem always comes back to ive seen what happens when you under or over heat metal as wll... that makes the automated machines more appealing for sure. I have also used a product which was either tempilaq or very similar with excellent results. Kinda standing on that cliff waiting for the right reason to jump in but want the right hardware also...

I look for 3 signs and they usually come in this order fairly quickly:

1. The orange flash fire off the case neck
2. The anneal growing just past the shoulder
3. Dull red glow

4-5 seconds for these 308 FGMM cases. 300WM Prvi Partizan cases typically 6-7 seconds. Its really the 3 indicators I use to tell me to pull. It can vary a second or so. I've experienced nothing but more consistent sizing and measurements. Pick some junk brass and get a feel. You can't hurt anything.

 

[JFrank]

Ha, your post actually prompted me to ask the question. It seems like it could be such an easy process but... i have worked in a couple fab shops etc when i was younger and know that heat can do some awsome things to metals when controlled properly. My problem always comes back to ive seen what happens when you under or over heat metal as wll... that makes the automated machines more appealing for sure. I have also used a product which was either tempilaq or very similar with excellent results. Kinda standing on that cliff waiting for the right reason to jump in but want the right hardware also...

I have had a few poor experiences with the annealing process, whether self inflicted or not it really doesn’t matter but I have decided for myself that annealing is a performance based procedure that may or may not be required.
So if your having cases that resist sizing or neck wall’s that are too hard or overworked or something that leads you that direction over time then maybe set those brass aside or anneal them for a better or worse testing foremat.
Jim

 

[joshb]

I annealed my brass with the “torch and drill” method when I started. It works well IF you are careful and disciplined. It would work well for your needs.
I got deeper into target shooting and bought a Benchsource. It’s a good machine.
I still use my Rockchucker to load most of my ammo.

 

[jepp2]

Seems accros the board federal just fails early. Could i get much more if i annealed it?

How is your brass failing? If the brass is being culled due to oversize primer pockets, annealing will not fix over pressure loading.

If your brass tends to flow a lot on firing and you are trimming every firing, annealing can help reduce neck cracking.

I used to anneal every 5'th firing for smaller cartridges (204 R, 20P, 223) just to prolong the brass life. On larger stuff I don't work the neck much since I used honed dies and rifles that have necks that aren't oversized.

I finally decided to try an AMP. Now I anneal every firing. I find the neck tension is much improved. I also stopped using SS pin tumbling for most since it removes all the carbon in the neck. Accuracy improved due to consistent neck tension.

 

[sksshooter]

How is your brass failing? If the brass is being culled due to oversize primer pockets, annealing will not fix over pressure loading.

If your brass tends to flow a lot on firing and you are trimming every firing, annealing can help reduce neck cracking.

I used to anneal every 5'th firing for smaller cartridges (204 R, 20P, 223) just to prolong the brass life. On larger stuff I don't work the neck much since I used honed dies and rifles that have necks that aren't oversized.

I finally decided to try an AMP. Now I anneal every firing. I find the neck tension is much improved. I also stopped using SS pin tumbling for most since it removes all the carbon in the neck. Accuracy improved due to consistent neck tension.

On my wsm im loosing it to split necks fairly frequent. Have had some as early as 3 firings. Ive read of many people who have this experience. Havent lost any primer pockets yet which also seems to be common but it could be because they split so early. Not running at max with these loads either. Im a full grain under max with zero pressure signs on the brass and the bolt lifts as smooth as it does without a round case.

 

[Liven The Dream]

I started off F/Class Shooting with my old Palma Shooting Reloading skills .
Then I found I need to update a lot.
Anneal Machine , Pushing Dies and on and on.
Found out to keep Necks the most consistent size, Anneal every time was needed.
Yes it made a differance.
Random neck tension = Random Shot Placement in this game.

 

[jepp2]

On my wsm im loosing it to split necks fairly frequent.

The amount of work hardening of the necks each firing cycle, is a function of how much "work" is put in. These are numbers that help me determine how often I should anneal:
- the neck diameter of the rifle chamber (normally about 0.001" larger than the fired neck OD)
- the neck diameter of the sizing die I am using. I find some of the newer dies undersize the case neck by as much as 0.010")
- the diameter of the expander you are using
- the OD of the neck after seating your bullets

If your rifle has a fairly large chamber neck, your sizing die undersizes the case neck as much as some I have seen, and your expander is having to enlarge the neck significantly, this is putting a lot of work hardening into that portion of the case.

I ran a case life test on my AR and annealed every 5 firings. I got as many as 37 firings out of the cases and none failed due to the typical neck cracks seen from work hardening.

 

[Longtrain]

I’m a competitive target shooter. I mainly shoot a Dasher, consistancy is what I strive for in my loads.
Annealing every firing gives me the ability to consistently resize my brass, the firing measurement is 1.243” and I can bump the shoulders .001, time after time getting a perfect fit in my chamber. Does it show up on the target? I think so and the consistency removes one more thing that I can blame for the “8”. Another benefit, my brass lasts a real long time.

 

[Chuckhunter]

I do it for a few reasons, consistent neck tension, greatly extends brass life (Lapua Brass is not as costly if you anneal). Since I own an AMP, it's so easy to do, I just anneal my brass after every firing, comp & hunting. It's probably not necessary for hunting rounds (excluding PD shooters) but it does extend and prolong brass life so why not?

 

[dcali]

I don't bother because my time is valuable and I don't have any of the problems that annealing is supposed to fix.

 

[Shooter13]

I finally decided to try an AMP. Now I anneal every firing. I find the neck tension is much improved. I also stopped using SS pin tumbling for most since it removes all the carbon in the neck. Accuracy improved due to consistent neck tension.

I agree completely with this BUT if you are just hunting and using the aforementioned brass my question would be why? You are not trying to put one bullet inside of another, you are taking meat and for that If I didn't already have an amp I would not anneal for hunting. My $.02

 

[justinp61]

I too am a hunter but will occasionally punch some paper just for fun. I load on a well used old Rock chucker, a RCBS 5-0-5 from the 80's and hand trickle to weight every charge. I started annealing because I could feel pressure differences while seating bullets and was finding more variance in shoulder bump measurements than I thought should be. After annealing my bullet seating effort became more consistent as did the shoulder bump measurements.

I am not a high volume loader so I can't justify the cost of a commercial produced annealing machine so I made a simple set up that works for me.

 

[jepp2]

you are taking meat and for that If I didn't already have an amp I would not anneal for hunting.

I didn't buy the AMP for hunting. For years I annealed this way, total cost about $30. Brass now costs me more than $1 each, so I am interested in prolonging the life of it.

But I also want to be able to shoot something for meat up to 600+ yards if necessary, and not be thinking about will my neck tension affect the bullet accuracy.

 

[Doom]

Your split necks may be a function of your tumbling method. Brass work hardens and tumbling with pins is going to contribute to the work hardening along with the full length resizing.

 

[CubCouper]

Cartridge brass is a specific brass alloy that has a fairly complex set of grain structure stages. These grain structures are established through various amounts of forming and heat treatments.

The primary cause of case failure is incorrect setup of the resizing dies which results in grain structures that are altered by the forming process. Heat treatment (annealing) does very little to correct these forming errors and is generally of little value to brass that is managed to fit a particular chamber.

The two keys are 1) dies that fit the chamber very well, and 2) carefully setting those dies to move the brass no more than 1 to 3 thousandths of an inch (.001-.003"). Even a few cycles of .005" of forming movement (i.e. resizing) starts to alter the brass grain structure in a way that all the typical annealing methods (torch or electronic) do not repair.

A common error is following the standard manufacture directions for die setup -- "turn the die down to the shellholder, then back off 1/4 turn". Due to all the stacked tolerances in shellholder, die, press, chamber, and cartridge measurements this can result in resizing the brass anywhere from 0 to .015" or more. Missing that .001-.003" window through even two firings will often shorten brass life to 5-10 firings total even with annealing. On the other hand, I have brass that has been fired 200+ times and has never been annealed - always full-length sized to just push the shoulder back 1-1/2 thou.

Another common culprit is the standard resizing die that crunches down the neck, then pulls an expander ball back through it to set the diameter. These two actions usually both violate the .001-.003" movement rule and double up on the forming actions. Switching to bushing style dies and having the small selection of bushings necessary to just pinch the necks enough is a much better investment than an annealing machine.

Annealing has a place. If you are re-forming brass from unknown chambers, or reloading to standard specifications for use in multiple guns, then it makes sense to relieve as much pre-existing grain structure as the annealing process can do. In effect this is what manufacturers are doing through the multiple annealing steps in the manufacturing process.