Titanium Actions- barrels getting loose???

[gme]

Pierce Engineering has built lots of FTR guns with their TI actions, some for the Michigan team, never heard of any incidents of barrels coming loose

 

[dkhunt14]

Grade 5 titanium has a youngs modulus around 16.5 ksi, whereas 416 sits at 30 ksi. So titanium is almost twice as stretchy. I'm interested in how that plays out on bolt thrust though. My thought was that the brass seals to the chamber and is largely self supporting, putting minimal force on the bolt. If that is true, then a titanium action wouldn't really let the brass grow more because the forces are so low.

Wouldn't the barrel tenon hold the case And keep it from expanding, just like a steel action? Matt

 

[Rick in Oregon]

I have a Ti action made for me by Prairie Gunworks in Winnipeg. It's a M700 clone in 7-08AI with a SS barrel. In the 20 years I've fielded the rifle, there has not been any issues with barrel tightness/looseness. It's just been the best high country hunting rifle I've ever owned, coming in at exactly 6.9 lbs "trailside" (loaded, sling, scope).

I suppose if one had an AR with a Ti upper and fired in rapid succession on a regular basis, well then this issue may be relevant, but for a bolt action hunting rifle? Maybe not so much.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I hear a lot of conjecture here. I have a friend who has a custom hunting rifle built on a Remington titanium action. He has had it for a number of years, and shot it a lot, with no problems at all. It is his favorite, go to rifle. I admit to skimming. Did someone who posted say that he actually has such an action and experienced the problem?

No, I have never heard of a barrel loosening due to a ti action. I have built on quite a few and have no issues.

 

[Evan]

Wouldn't the barrel tenon hold the case And keep it from expanding, just like a steel action? Matt

Barrel tenon will certainly support the case. Assuming a CTE of 16, the expansion of that 0.473 hole would be to 0.4737 across 100 degrees. Not a problem at all as we all know. The 1.06 tenon would grow to 1.062 across the same 100 degrees. The titanium receiver (CTE 9) grows from 1.060 to 1.061. A perfect thread fit becomes tight by 0.001, in this case. Not much, but perhaps in some weird corner case, over a greater temp range, and large number of cycles, could strain the titanium enough.

I agree with Alex: I'd never heard of this problem with titanium actions before this thread. I'm just conjecturing based off my experience with materials joining in rather extreme environments.

Edit: I just recalled Carlsbad looked up 410 series CTE at 10. You can see that these numbers would be even smaller. The chance of CTE mismatch induced strain for such moderate temperatures is basically non-existant.

 

[Delfuego]

I hear a lot of conjecture here.

I have heard of this. I have also heard the different twist barrel could unscrew from the action. I have also heard that left-twist barrel shoot better in the northern hemisphere. I am gonna put all these in the "herd dat" list. That list is much longer than the "seen dat" list.

 

[Robert]

Grade 5 titanium has a youngs modulus around 16.5 ksi, whereas 416 sits at 30 ksi. So titanium is almost twice as stretchy. I'm interested in how that plays out on bolt thrust though. My thought was that the brass seals to the chamber and is largely self supporting, putting minimal force on the bolt. If that is true, then a titanium action wouldn't really let the brass grow more because the forces are so low.

Spot on.. I know of an example after a severe overpresure close to blow with a FP blowback, the barrel was loose and the receiver slightly bulged at one point. Diameter increase was visible and measurable. I do not remembel the measurements.
R.G.C

 

[riflewoman]

I hear a lot of conjecture here.

Here’s a little more....
Perhaps the barrel threads galled or seized before full torque was applied? Then after firing the seized area loosened now you have a barrel with less than full torque?. Dunno..???

 

[Texas]

I hear a lot of conjecture here. I have a friend who has a custom hunting rifle built on a Remington titanium action. He has had it for a number of years, and shot it a lot, with no problems at all. It is his favorite, go to rifle. I admit to skimming. Did someone who posted say that he actually has such an action and experienced the problem?

Yes. Several mentioned actually seeing this problem. I called Jim Borden and Stiller. Both of them told me they no longer will make an action from Titanium. Im sure many people use them with great success but for me the steel just makes more sense.

 

[Evan]

Yes. Several mentioned actually seeing this problem. I called Jim Borden and Stiller. Both of them told me they no longer will make an action from Titanium. Im sure many people use them with great success but for me the steel just makes more sense.

This may have just as much to do with the difficulty of machining titanium and the number of them they sell. Made more sense to them to stop making them and sell more stainless actions.

 

[butchlambert]

My Pierce has never loosened the barrel. Are you sure Stiller used to make Ti receivers? Remember, he sold out some time ago.
I will go with Evan on the machining is the reason some do not make them anymore. Texas, did Jim or Jerry say they quit making them because the barrels got loose?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I know one stopped because machine time was not worth it. I know others have had machining and tooling issues. I have not heard of actual problems related to the ti action or bolt.

 

[butchlambert]

My 2nd BR rifle had a Ti receiver with a steel bolt, that was built much like a Hall. Never had a barrel come loose, however I did have one Hell-of-a-time with the bolt getting stuck in the back of the receiver. Several Posters have mentioned the "sticky" nature of Ti. It sure is. If that bolt wasn't put in dead-nuts straight . . . whammo! Stuck! And it took a bunch of swearing, tapping, and yanking to remove it. Certainly not the best way to start a BR Match. After going through several such episodes, I sold the rifle.

Chris Mitchell

Maybe not a quality brand.

 

[BP1]

I was speaking with a reputable gun builder recently and was told something interesting. They do not like using titanium actions because they have seen barrels come loose despite being installed to proper torque specs. Apparently steel and titanium have different stretch when being fired and after a while the barrel isn't threaded tight into the action... Has anyone else ever heard of this issue?
Thanks

That’s weird..that’s all I run on my tr rifles and haven’t had one come loose yet... but I will keep that excuse in my why I didn’t shoot good box

 

[Webster]

The silver is a high temp anti-seize. The high temp variety of aircraft nuts are plated with silver and are good to 800F, the low temp nuts were cadmium plated then dipped in a Moly based dry film and good to 450F.

Never seize sold at places like AutoZone is very fine nickel particles not silver.

 

[Evan]

Never seize sold at places like AutoZone is very fine nickel particles not silver.

The "good" stuff is silver, but you don't buy it from autozone! At work we use grafoil, which is graphite based, not that that has any bearing on this discussion.

 

[butchlambert]

I just checked mine and it is tight. I worried after all these posts and I used synthetic bicycle racing wheel bearing grease on mine.

 

[dcali]

If it’s coming loose, it’s not torqued to spec by definition. As others mentioned, titanium has some particular issues that need attention (galling,etc) but it’s not causing the barrel loosen.

 

[Steveb]

How does a Ti action wear over time in a match rifle which shoots far more rounds than a hunting rifle?
Will the lugs wear more because the Ti is softer?

Thanks

 

[atblis]

I'm assuming there are some inserts for the bearing surfaces though I see no mention of that in the literature for a couple of the titanium actions.