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Tired of loose pockets? I WAS but not no more!

After a little over 3 years and $6,600 worth of materials, counting the powder, bullets, primers, barrels, chamber jobs, brass to fire a little under 4400 rounds, my original 284 WIN brass primer pockets were so loose, it was time to do something. Over 100 cases would not keep a primer in. Ok, I shoot a hot load, but after 10-12 firings, they get loose! Now my rifle is a tight necked straight 284 with a .312 neck so all brass has to be prep’d big time, regardless of make, and I have a lot of time and energy into these 500+ cases! (FL sizing without the expander, trim to same lengths, inside and outside neck deburring, inside flash hole deburring, inside primer pocket depth uniformed, mandrelling up to 284, neck turning, cleaning, priming, loading, fire forming, re-cleaning, weight sorting).

I was talking to a buddy (GT) and he said he has the fix for this! He sent me these pics and specs and said HR made him "nubs" for both LR and SR pockets! So I had HR make me a LR one!

The tool, basically pushes, via a loading press, a small amount of case base material from around the edge of the primer pocket hole into the hole itself to create a small ring/ridge in the primer pocket to hold a primer tight again.





You need a pocket swagger die to hold the inside of the brass down while pushing the brass into the primer pocket hole.


RCBS sells one for removing military crimps from pockets...


Put the tool in the press,


place the case remover collar over the tool,


put a case on the tool, (you have to raise the ram some to have the tip stick thru the opening of the removal collar)


stroke it,


and you get...


This works! Holds primers like new again or even tighter! Loose pockets go from 0.207-0.212 to 0.2045 to 0.2055 and primers stay in them now. I reloaded and fired 30 of these "fixed" cases a few days ago, in -30 C weather and none leaked and all required good force to de-prime them again!

Cost... about $50 for the RCBS swagger die and $40 to have the tool made.

Here is the SAAMI drawing for primers and pockets...


Thanks GT for the tip and pics and thanks HR for making it for me.
(Most Canadian competitors will know who these two gents are ;) )
GT is an FOpen shooter and HR is a master machinist who does all my rifles.

How I set this tool and die up.... place a case on the tool, raise the ram all the way up, screw the dies down so it has lots of threads in the press to hold things, and screw the center rod down till it touches the bottom of the stroked case, lower the ram so you are just before or starting into the cam over, screw the rod down to the new location. This setup allows you the power of the cam over to push a small amount of brass into the pocket hole. You will need some force to remove the case from the tool or your not pushing enough material. GT says he just does it "by feel" because you can feel the brass moving.
 
Looks interesting. MSP makes an anvil type that does something similar. One rests the flash hole on top of an anvil that is mounted to a steel base, insert a 'nub' into the primer pocket and tap with a brass hammer. Also makes a rim but since one is not using the power of a press the 'fix' only lasts until one decaps the brass after firing. I tried it with PRVI 9.3x62 brass that had essentially no primer holding tension AT ALL out of the box. At least I could fire them once or twice before changing to better brass.
 
HR made my "nud", he can be reached at henry.rempel@hotmail.com or you can have one made, see the 1st pic in my post. RCBS makes the die and rod aka primer pocket swagger tool-2 pn 9481 (fourth pic in my post). Once you heat treat the "nub" the dimensions will be a few thou smaller, my top tip is .2045"

Henry has a few extra's made up already in SR and LR so contact him and he can fix you up!
 
Thanks for the post! It’s interesting and my question is how is this different than the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2 listed here? That “nub” looks exactly like the one in the ad so would be interested in hearing an explanation?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2

At least superficially, I would agree with MTM that this might be a short term solution since the decrease in diameter for the primer pocket is only in that small rim at the very top of the pocket where the “nub” press down and expand and not the whole length of the pocket.
 
Yes it may only buy me a FEW more reloads with these "fixed" cases, but 500x4 is a year of shooting.
The one you get with the RCBS swagger has rounded edges to push the mil crimp into the pocket and has a smaller diameter, this tool has square edges to move the brass into the pocket. I have used the RCBS one to swag the hole bigger after I really moved a ton of material and could not set a primer in it.
 
Right thanks! I just realized this too! Good luck with the new tool!

Thinking about this a bit more, it would seem that with the right edge on the "nub", one could actually make something that would give one a military crimp? In many ways, what you have is something like a gentle military crimp?
 
think I'm gonna make one and give it a try. some of my 284 Shehane brass is at the edge of it's life and if I can get another couple of firings from it, that would be worthwhile.
 
6mmcldasher: Bring them by a shoot at Nokomis and I'll tighten them for ya LOL. Gord Ogg wants to borrow it now too.

Too easy too make yourself too, give the first pic to a machinist and have him make it, then harden it and use oil as the quench so it goes to about a 55 rockwell and then buy a RCBS swagger 2. Comes in handy for the ones that are too tight to swag them back up a hair using their nub with the rounded edges.
 
Very interesting bit of info. Never liked tossing good brass that started showing leakage but also didn't want a bolt face that was scarred up. Need to order some new stuff it looks like !
 
If you can get new stuff, I have been looking and no 284 WIN brass around, nor any 6.5x284 Lapua either, at least in Canada. Even Peter is out... Hirsch, so I had to do something LOL. If it buys me a few more firings, it was worth it IMO.
 
Kodiak99317 said:
6mmcldasher: Bring them by a shoot at Nokomis and I'll tighten them for ya LOL. Gord Ogg wants to borrow it now too. Too easy, give the first pic to a machinist and have him make it, then harden it and use oil as the quench so it goes to about a 55 rockwell and then buy a RCBS swagger 2. Comes in handy for the ones that are too tight to swag them back up a hair using their nub withthe rounded edges.
[/quote
I'll get Denis and Paul on it when they get back from their Big Ice job. I've got steel that will go to 58rc. I know where there's win brass if you need.
 
There needs to be a design change. Look at the base of a piece of Lapua brass. See the ring around the primer pocket? Lapua manufacturers their brass with a "condensed" ring surrounding the primer pocket.
 
I have flash hole gages, when the flash hole expands the primer pocket also expands. I have no clue about what is happening to other reloaders case heads. when my primer pocket/flash hole s expand my case heads also expand and the case head gets thinner from the top of the cup above the web and case head.

Normal case head expansion for factory ammo is .00025" for the first firing.

I have seen through die sizers, others advertise rollers, if I wanted to reduce the diameter of the primer pocket I would make a tool that looks similar to the RCBS primer pocket swage on the top and modified on the bottom.

The one thing I have to consider is the work hardening of the case head. I do not want to work the case head and risk a fracture, a fracture of the case head is not the same as insipient case head separation.

F. Guffey
 
fguffey said:
The one thing I have to consider is the work hardening of the case head. I do not want to work the case head and risk a fracture, a fracture of the case head is not the same as insipient case head separation.

I, too, am leery of this. Swaging the primer pockets to extend the useful life of cases which have obviously been subjected to enough pressure to really loosen those primer pockets - I feel a little queasy. Not saying you shouldn't do it, just let me know which bench you'll be on at my shooting range ...
 
jlow said:
Thanks for the post! It’s interesting and my question is how is this different than the RCBS Primer Pocket Swager Combo 2 listed here? That “nub” looks exactly like the one in the ad so would be interested in hearing an explanation?

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/235832/rcbs-primer-pocket-swager-combo-2

At least superficially, I would agree with MTM that this might be a short term solution since the decrease in diameter for the primer pocket is only in that small rim at the very top of the pocket where the “nub” press down and expand and not the whole length of the pocket.

These RCBS tools are designed for the opposite. They "swage" or take out the crimp of military brass.
 

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