Tips for using the stripped bolt method for seating depth.

[Puzzaz01]

Neither. In some cases annealing is good, others its not. My advice is to work up loads with un annealed brass. Then anneal 10 cases and try them, if the groups open, adjust neck tension. If you cant get them to shoot as well, at least you didnt ruin all your cases. If it shoots better, then do the rest. In general if a powder likes a lot of neck tension, it probably wont like annealed brass.

I'm going to second that statement as I've just experienced annealed cases loosing neck tension followed groups opening up erratically. I'm hoping to recover neck tension with a smaller bushing.
I will be keeping a close eye on them.
Jim[/QUOTE]
Jim I agree.... I was looking for that ( little bit more accuracy ) so I decided to order an annealer and all the sudden my mid to long range groups started opening up, what the heck happened? I researched everything including templaque and a wide variety of temp gauges but still worse results. I tried shooting that brass without annealing for about 5 or 6 times, still no signs of hope. I opened a new box of brass, fire formed them and wow big improvement. I continued to play with the annealer for a few years and never could find any upside...... so I sold it! I'm happy and the buyer was happy.

Darrin

 

[WSnyder]

@Link @Someoldguy That's alinwa's style, he's fooling around (I'm sure he was depreciating himself and not being condescending towards you) he didn't mean any harm Link's way. He's been around for years and has worked/experimented with a lot of stuff so keep an open mind and you might find a nugget of something good there.

 

[Richard Coody]

i am an annealer for these reasons. i anneal every firing to keep everything consistent. many very competent shooters never anneal. whatever works for you.

brass life
consistent shoulder bump
consistent neck tension
consistent seating effort/depth

if your annealing method is inconsistent or you overanneal you will have problems. better off staying away from it.

if you develop a load with work hardened brass then don't expect that same load to work in freshly annealed brass.

as with everything in shooting and reloading consistency is the key.

 

[Richard Coody]

View attachment 1056233

Here’s how Alex’s stripped bolt method helps my rifle: it’s been at least a couple hundred competition (F-Class) rounds since I last did it. I just found out my lands moved .010” away since then. I still had a few rounds left of the old seating depth, which is now .015” off the lands. I loaded up 5 that are back to .005” off. I shot 10 shots to warm up the barrel and foul it, shot the left group which are jumping .010” too much now, and then shot the right group which are my .005” off load. These are at 600 yards. I’m a firm believer that is a repeatable reference point.

yeap
whatever method you use to find that datum if it is repeatable would have the same result.

 

[Alexander-M]

For us newbies, it would be helpful if someone would post instructions on how to strip a bolt. I use the Stoney point tool because taking the bolt spring out does not seem to be a simple proposition.

Alex Wheeler's method works great and is consistent, as has been said numerous times.

To disassemble the bolt, do a search on YouTube, and you will find many methods. For a Rem 700 style bolt, I have done it without any special tools, but the tool from Brownells makes it a lot easier, as shown here.

This is a far as you need to dsassemble the bolt to find the lands. However, if you want to disassemble the firing pin asssembly, then you need another tool, as shown here.

Good luck!
Alex

 

[rardoin]

Ok. Borden BRM with the bolt stripped and ejector out as well. I put the bolt back in stripped and it drops freely just like the video. I put in a sized piece of brass, usually .002 bump, and bolt just quite doesn’t want to drop. Tried bumping it to .004 with no change. Any thoughts on what to try to get it to drop?

Same here with BRMXD....I tried more shoulder set-back, small base die and still no 'free-fall' of the bolt handle on most cases in my current barrel. I have measured all the critical dimensions of the case compared to a freely chambering case and I cannot detect a difference using Mit. calipers. I suspect something to do with the Sako type extractor and possibly pulling the case body into the chamber wall. Any thoughts Alex?

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Check to make sure that when a case is in the boltface the sako is not sticking out farther than the cone on the bolt. If it is it can rub on the coned surface of the barrel. A couple strokes with a file will fix it.

 

[rardoin]

Check to make sure that when a case is in the boltface the sako is not sticking out farther than the cone on the bolt. If it is it can rub on the coned surface of the barrel. A couple strokes with a file will fix it.

Thanks, that was my first thought as I am using 6.5 x55 brass for the BJAI variant and that brass has a bit of variation in rim thickness/groove width that could produce more 'kick-out' on the extractor claw. I made some slight modifications with a jeweler's file and it seemed to help a little. I think I will hit it again with the fine file.

 

[Drolds72]

Thanks, that was my first thought as I am using 6.5 x55 brass for the BJAI variant and that brass has a bit of variation in rim thickness/groove width that could produce more 'kick-out' on the extractor claw. I made some slight modifications with a jeweler's file and it seemed to help a little. I think I will hit it again with the fine file.

I removed the claw extractor, and finally got the bolt to freefall. However, had to use a dowel to remove the dummy. One other side effect, is that there is some friction on the first 1/4" of bolt drop, that is a false reading for the touch point. maybe something to do with getting the case head in the bolt upon closure. At any rate, I think I found my touch point, and cleaned up the goop in the extractor in the process

 

[Ccrider]

So on a savage action, you don’t need a special tool. Just a screwdriver and a punch? For my Defiance action, presumably the Remington tool will work?

 

[memilanuk]

So on a savage action, you don’t need a special tool. Just a screwdriver and a punch? For my Defiance action, presumably the Remington tool will work?

If you're talking about taking apart the BAS (bolt assembly screw) on Savage bolts, only the older ones use a large flat-blade slotted screw. A 1/4" allen wrench is the normal tool for any recent production (last couple decades), and then a small punch for pushing out the ejector retaining pin.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

So on a savage action, you don’t need a special tool. Just a screwdriver and a punch? For my Defiance action, presumably the Remington tool will work?

Yes for Defiance action the Kleinendorst tool works great.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

You can also reduce the pressure of the extractor pushing the case to the side of the bolt face (as Alex mentioned) with a small hand file. On my Defiance I could see the body under the claw of the mini 16 extractor was slightly protruding into the bolt face area. A little file work to take that down a bit and sharpen the angle of the claw made it a lot nicer and extraction is much better.

I have used the Kleinendorst tool for many years. (Same tool in Alex Wheelers video) Only way to go. Cheap and very easy to use. Kleinendorst tool will not work on Lawton shrouds.

 

[OmegaRed]

Sub

 

[yukonal]

Alex, thanks for the extra tips. They don't apply in my situation, but, since switching over to your method 3 years ago, my tuning has been a lot easier. And more consistent. The sizing video is great, also. That's helped me a lot, too.

Too bad your post has caused the extra controversy, and side issues, but I guess that should have been expected.

I feel those 2 video's have helped my reloading by leaps and bounds in the past few years.

Along with ANNEALING...LOL

 

[Jdne5b]

If you're talking about taking apart the BAS (bolt assembly screw) on Savage bolts, only the older ones use a large flat-blade slotted screw. A 1/4" allen wrench is the normal tool for any recent production (last couple decades), and then a small punch for pushing out the ejector retaining pin.

Does this method work for a floating bolt head Savage?

 

[fatelvis]

Or a RPR with the stupid detachable bolt knob. You take the firing pin out, and the bolt falls apart.....

 

[memilanuk]

Does this method work for a floating bolt head Savage?

Yes it does. You need to strip a few additional things - remove the front bolt baffle, wave spring, rear baffle/ cam, the cocking piece and cocking piece sleeve. Put the firing pin assembly back in to keep the toggle bolt in position to hold the bolt head. If you don't, the toggle bolt will 'fall' once you rotate the bolt closed and gravity takes effect. You can either hold it in with scotch tape, or just put the firing pin assembly back in and it'll take care of itself.

Once done and reassembled you will have *zero* extraction, so be a little careful about 'stuffing' the bullet into the lands - otherwise you may need to get creative to get things back out again. DAMHIKT...

 

[cw308]

I've been using the stripped bolt method for quite awhile . Strip bolt means just that , only the bolt housing . No firing spring assembly, ejector plunger or extractor . I find my case headspace and ogive measurements with a stripped bolt . Works very accurate for me , takes some time going back and forth from die to chamber , haven't found a better system . Don't like zero settings , not good for bolt locking lugs on my Rem. 700

 

[dave@aDave]

Gents
Is this the most controversial topic on this forum?
If not it has to be in the top 3
1. Finding the lands
2. Ladder test /Seating depth
3. Shoulder Bumping
4.EDIT- ANNEALING
I wonder what order is correct?
J

I would like to suggest that bore cleaning chemical/s seem to generate some attention