Tipped verses untipped Sierra Matchkings

[dreever]

Has anyone compared tipped verses untipped in a given caliber?
I'm interested in the 6mm 95 grain Matchkings in particular.

 

[ngb1787]

You must tip, results are immediate.

 

[rkittine]

The guy that was my mentor at this years Williamsport 1,000 Yard Bench Rest School had me shooting a 6x47 Lapua and was very much impressed by the Sierra 107s that come already Tipped, though for the course we cut and tipped out own. Convinced me to put the cutter and tipping die, though I might be better off buying pre-tipped as more varieties become available.

Bob

 

[Laurie]

Do you mean factory 'pointed' as per the latest iteration of the 95gn SMK, or do you mean (acetyl) 'tipped' as in the new 95gn TMK? (There is widespread confusion over tipped/pointed on this forum and elsewhere.)

 

[dreever]

Do you mean factory 'pointed' as per the latest iteration of the 95gn SMK, or do you mean (acetyl) 'tipped' as in the new 95gn TMK? (There is widespread confusion over tipped/pointed on this forum and elsewhere.)

I was referring to the green acetyl tipped verses the standard factory pointed 95 gr. MatchKing.

 

[geraldgee]

I can't speak to the specific bullets you asked about but I have tried the .224 77 tipped versus the HPBT Match Kings in both my bolt 223 and AR - my rifles did not like the tipped bullets. Of course I had to seat the tipped bullet deeper for the AR to accommodate the additional length but my bolt 700 didn't like them either. Good luck.

Gerald

 

[firewrench044]

I started with 175gr (with the the same load as regular March Kings)
NO GOOD
Tried working up new load -- no luck with first attempt
Called Sierra they said " it is a totall different bullet (a hybrid)
And its load will be completey different than regular Match Kings,
And sweet spot is a lot narrower, he said the bullet is very picky
On the load and jump to the lands "

I have a very good load for the 175 MK for 308 and 3006
So that is where I stopped

 

[dstoenner]

I can't speak to the specific bullets you asked about but I have tried the .224 77 tipped versus the HPBT Match Kings in both my bolt 223 and AR - my rifles did not like the tipped bullets. Of course I had to seat the tipped bullet deeper for the AR to accommodate the additional length but my bolt 700 didn't like them either. Good luck.

Gerald

Both my AR 1:8 Wylde nor my 700 bolt 1:8 Wylde liked the tipped version. Regular 77 HPBT shoot great at mag length in both guns

David

 

[Metal God]

Tried working up new load -- no luck with first attempt
Called Sierra they said " it is a totall different bullet (a hybrid)
And its load will be completey different than regular Match Kings,

^^^^This ^^^^

On paper/theory the TMK is far better then the SMK . I had been shooting the 175gr smk in 308 for years . I came across a great deal on 500 175gr TMK so I bought them . They are very different then the standard SMK . There Ogive is much more like an A-max bullet Rather then the standard smk . IMO they are much more jump sensitive but if you can get them dialed in they should do very well . I tried a few different powders ( IMR 4064 and AR comp ) but did not find an expectable load right away like I tend to do with the standard SMK . So I put them up for now . I likely still have 350 of then left . I think the main reason I don't try harder to find a load using the TMK is that I may like them and they cost to much . I'll stick with bulk , sale Hornady bullets as my primary bullets .

 

[Deleted old_dood]

Has anyone compared tipped verses untipped in a given caliber?
I'm interested in the 6mm 95 grain Matchkings in particular.

If you have a bolt action you'd better have a short freebore because of the shape of the tip. my rifle has .094" and with .030" jump I only have about 1/8" bearing surface in the neck. the 107SMK works much better for me.

 

[MoneyWaster]

I shoot 175 gn. TMKs out of a .308 with good success. I load it over 43.8 gn of Varget, CCI BR 2 primers in Lapua brass, and get 2700 fps for velocity out of a 26" Bartlein HV contour barrel. SDs are almost always less than 8 fps. I routinely shoot 5 shot groups at 100 yards below 0.5", and 10 shot groups come in at around 0.69". I've taken this load to 1000 yards with reasonable success. Its a hammer at 700 and very consistent. I like this bullet so much that I bought 1500 of them.

 

[Boyd L.]

Has anyone compared tipped verses untipped in a given caliber?
I'm interested in the 6mm 95 grain Matchkings in particular.

Not exactly, but here’s what I have done. I have been struggling to get my Criterion barrel to perform with 107 SMK. Thus I tried a box of 95 SMK and after some informal experimentation I got a few groups at 300 ranging just north and south of 1/2 MOA. With a sample this small it’s certainly not conclusive, but good enough to warrant further exploration.
I decided to not try more for load development with the SMK but instead focus on the 95 TMK. I can tell you that today, using the TMK, I shot a ladder at 300 that put five shots into just 7/8” of vertical. As soon as the weather cooperates I plan to try two loads from this distribution.
Not exactly an answer to what you asked. General thoughts at this point are: both have potential, but I’m sticking with the TMK until I’m satisfied it’s reached its potential (in my hands/rifle). At that point I will probably get to wondering about the SMK’s potential.

Watching the thread for more input.

 

[nmkid]

I gave up on the tipped 107 for my 6-284. Just couldn't get them to group.

 

[284winner]

Has anyone compared tipped verses untipped in a given caliber?
I'm interested in the 6mm 95 grain Matchkings in particular.

Personally the TMK in every caliber I've used it in has outperformed the SMK. Have not tried real extended range on any but the 168 in a 308. The 95s shot better in my 243 than SMKs do. I cannot shoot heavier than the 95s due to thecircumstances9.125 twist barrel. Out 400 yards, they all outperformed SMKs. The 308 also shot much better double that range. This is my experience and one I expected. Amax bullets perform the same in most of my guns as well.

 

[Laurie]

^^^^This ^^^^

On paper/theory the TMK is far better then the SMK . I had been shooting the 175gr smk in 308 for years . I came across a great deal on 500 175gr TMK so I bought them . They are very different then the standard SMK . There Ogive is much more like an A-max bullet Rather then the standard smk . IMO they are much more jump sensitive but if you can get them dialed in they should do very well.

Yes, indeedy, they are very different designs tail section asides (9-deg angle and similar lengths). The TMK has a slightly longer bearing surface (by 30 thou'), but the real difference is in the nose section. The 175 SMK has a 'traditional Sierra' 7-calibre radius nose, really very short and blunt by current long-range bullet standards. The TMK has a much longer 'pointer' front end with a 14.94-calibres radius. The Rt/R ratio which looks at the shank to nose junction is 1.00 for the SMK (perfect tangent form) whilst the TMK comes out at 0.55, almost a full VLD form. These values are from Bryan Litz who interestingly doesn't categorise the TMKs as having a 'Hybrid' type ogive junction.

Inevitably, the TMK with this shape is going to be 'picky' on jumps whilst the old 7-cal radius perfect tangent form SMK would be expected to be (and is in practice) amenable to any old seating position off the lands from 5 to 500 thou'. The benefits come with reduced drag, the TMK having a better form factor and higher BC than the equivalent Berger 175gn LR BT. However, this (latter) is a very easy bullet to tune - even if it is rather (!!) more expensive than the TMK for that matter. The new 168gn 30-cal TMK is also nothing like the old 168gn MK short-range bullet and has a very similar design to the 175 with a bit shorter mid bearing surface section.

The other difference between the 175 SMK/TMK pair is OAL and hence optimal rifling twist rates. The 175 SMK is stabilised in a 14 twist barrel and optimised in anything with a 13 or faster rate, hence ideal for common 1 in 12 turn factory rifle barrels or those set up for Fullbore / Palma shooting with 155s. The TMK is shown by Bryan Litz as needing a 12.2 pitch for minimum stabilisation in 'standard conditions' at 2,800 fps MV and needs 10.9" twist for optimal performance. So, those using it at normal sorts of altitudes need a 10 or 11-twist barrel to get the best from this model.

So as always, you pays your money and makes your choice ... but just as long as people understand that some of the new TMKs (not all models) are very different animals from 'traditional' Sierras and are therefore not going to be as accommodating of all chambers, COALs and loading practices.

I've used the 160gn TMK 0.284" bullet extensively in 7mm-08 and 284 Win at out to 1,000 yards in BR and F-Class and have found it a very satisfactory performer. Like many of Berger's LR BT designs, it is a reasonably long-nose model but has avoided an over-aggressive secant type nose / ogive and I've found it very easy to use and get shooting well.

Going back to the OP's question re 95gn 6mm Sierras, looking at Litz's evaluations both the newer 'pointed' SMK and the equivalent TMK have similar design characteristics, the TMK being in many ways a scaled-down version of the 160gn 7mm model that I've found tolerant. Both models need an 8-twist barrel for optimum performance. The TMK does give a bit of drag reduction over the pointed version of the traditional MK, but according to Litz, it only adds 0.003 to the latter's G7 BC value, or just over 1%. ie that being within Bryan Litz's experimental testing methodology's tolerances meaning that they have the same BC or at most are only marginally different. Price difference becomes an issue then - in the UK, the 95gn TMK is nearly 12% more expensive than the revised SMK. FWIW, those recent SMKs I've bought have been amongst the most consistent mass produced bullets I've seen with tiny weight and BTO variations. (TMKs are very good too - my use of Sierras has increased massively over the last year or so.)

 

[james]

I shoot 95 TMK in my factory Savage 6BR LRPV and my custom BAT 6BR with very good results - like them.

 

[johnfred1965]

My only experience has been with the 69gr .224. Using the same load of varget as my regular 69 MK, I am getting better groups with the tipped version. I get about .6 from my 8 twist ARfor the SMK, vs .4 for the tipped. I've shot just over a box of each for accuracy, and that is what I got. I guess it all depends on the rifle.

 

[johnmyers]

I gave up on the tipped 107 for my 6-284. Just couldn't get them to group.

Didn't know they had a tipped 107 sure you don't mean pointed

 

[fyrewall]

I have loaded one box of 6mm 95 Sierra tipped MK's (green plastic). I compared the Si tipped 6mm with the Berger 6mm 95 target VLD's at 300 and could not find any advantages in seating depth/accuracy with the green pointy Si MK bullets. I did not read any stuff about bullet profiles and form factors with the Si bullets but did read about the 95 Berger VLD form factors in the Berger manual. Casual observation of both bullets sort of makes me think the Sierra has a tangent type ogive but with my limited playing around with them I could not realize any seating depth tolerance. The boat tail of the Sierra appears to be slightly longer.

The 95 Berger VLD target is one of my favorite 6mm bullets at this point giving periodic sub 2 inch 5-7 shot groups at 300, 8 twist, seated back just a tiny bit, but as expected, not so good effects on rodents. I sectioned both bullets and the Sierra appears to have a thinner jacket than the Berger 95 VLD target.

Comparing 2 Berger bullets - the Berger 95 VLD hunting bullet might have a thinner jacket than the Berger 95 VLD target bullet to allow expansion/disintegration shortly after initial contact and penetration. Comparing all subject bullets - as expected, the 87 Hornady 6mm VMax has a thinner jacket than the other two 6mm bullets

More testing is needed and will include the 95 Sierra's tipped and 95 Berger VLD hunting. Hopefully, when shot out of a 6mm AI at about 3300 fps the Sierra 95 tipped will expand and perform well way out there.

Berger 95 grain 6mm VLD length 1.134 inches long with .065 meplat (+-.002 by caliper as close as possible to end)
Sierra 95 grain 6mm tipped MK 1.185 inches long, 1.051 long (+- .001) jacket and .134 (+-.001) plastic tip - and has less plastic than the 87 H VMax
Hornady 87 6mm VMax 1.053 inches long, .916 long (+-.001) jacket and .137 (+-.001) plastic tip - lots of plastic below "water line"

I guess I want something that will shoot as well as the Berger at long range and expand like the 87 VMax.

 

[Liven The Dream]

30 cal. 175 shoot much better the the old style in my F-TR rifle at 8,9&1000

I have 195's to try when my rifle comes back from the Stock Maker !!!!