• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Time to make the donuts....

Just a note on Larry Blackmon as a supplier. Last Friday, I called about getting another punch holder and another point punch. He was traveling on vacation but graciously took my order, saying he'd have to grind the punch in the size I'd requested but that he could do it within a week. Well, today...7 days to the day...Larry called and said both the punch holder and the punch were going out USPS Priority Mail.

Good shootin' :) -Al
 
JoeDuke said:
Any updates on this project Randy?
Click to expand...
Al is coming down after the first - he'll then be able to provide the rest of the story - I'm sworn to secrecy.

Regrading addressing a range core-seat punch diameters, looking at just the inside [jacket] dimensions, the primary consideration is that all of the jackets (various manufactures) feature tapered wall thickness: there will be a straight section, specified as a distance from the inside base, then a specified taper: angle from there to the jacket mouth.

When using the most commonly available bench-rest quality jackets, for a given caliber, & due to LOT-to-LOT production variation, J4 (Capstone Precision Group) will likely require the largest range of punch sizes/diameters. Beginning at the specified distance from the base, J4 specifies the taper angle in degrees & minutes, with a tolerance of +/- 30 minutes.:eek:

Since most people are probably more into making 6mm 68 gr. type bullets, lets look at angle and tolerance for the J4 .825" long 6mm jacket (the last revision in my possession, dated 1/19/01). From the inside base, the jacket wall is straight (no taper)@ for 0.200". From that point, to the mouth, the wall taper is specified as 0*52' ( ZERO degrees, 52 minutes), with a tolerance of +/- 30 minutes! :( "It's not the end of the world", it just dictates having either more punches, or, "driving by blind drunk during a foggy downpour".:p

For J4 jackets, & making a specific bullet weight, this clarifies the need for a range of core-seat punch diameters: the 'TOP' of any useful/suitable core length/weight will be well into the tapered section of the jacket. Glancing back: from 1994 to currently, the log book shows that my J4 .825" long jackets, making a 67 Gr. bullet, using a Niemi core-seat die, punch diameter has ranged from 0.2102" to 0.2130" - 0.0028" range. Depending upon ones degree of anal affliction, this could be either trifling, or, HUGE. o_O Only the bullet maker can decide - I have a range of punches to more than cover this spread, in 0.0002" increments, and, according to my micrometer, some in-between.;)

The seemingly defunct Hines Precision jackets were, "the cats meow", as they did not use angularity as a measure: they specified a diameter (determined via ball-gauge) at a specified distance from the inside jacket base. Thus, one needed have only say three, or, four punches at about 0.2120", one, or, two 1/10,000ths" on either side. The excellent Hines jackets were distributed through Bart Sauter (Bart's Bullets), Jeff Pinehardt (StaMoly), and Chris Harris (Bullet Central).

I have the notion that Sierra also employs the ball-gauge length:diameter specification, however, cannot verify this.

The simplest, least expensive method: make your core/bullet weight match your punch selection - ONE punch is enough.o_O If, from a given bullet die-set, you can shoot the difference in +/- a grain in bullet weight, when you shave, presuming you use a mirror, you are looking at a GOD! The range will probably be well under this +/- 1 grain presumption.;)

This is getting LONG . . . however, one last thought: always shoot for uniform 'bleed-by' around the punch - this assures that ALL air has been evacuated! NEVER use a punch which scrapes the inside wall. Keep'em ON the X! RG

P.S. after Christmas, I'll try to explain a good/reliable method for punch selection.
 
Last edited:
AlNyhus said:
Where I make bullets is 70-72 degrees years 'round so it's probably not a good example. I do warm up the dies for a minute or so with a small hair dryer before starting. It's 8 degrees here today and everything is covered with some icy sleet. Good time to make extra ejectors.

J.J., your bullet making efforts and skills have yielded some impressive results!! :cool:

Good shootin' :) -Al
QBDl8w3l.jpg
Click to expand...
Al, how long are the pins on these ejectors?
 
Joe, from the end of the notched solid section, I have them from 2.075 to 2.525 length. I like to keep them as short as possible. If you bend a pin, you can heat the solid section and twist the pin out. In a pinch, I've made new pins from long 1/16" drill bits and just used the solid section of the drill bit. Mostly, O1 drill rod from McMaster Carr gets used. The ends needs touching up a bit more often but they'll bend instead of breaking and scratching the die. :eek:

Hope this helps. -Al

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
 
Anyone game to take up a collection and get enough money together to make some 25 cal 120 +- tangent bullets with about a 500BC? Something like the Speer 120 gr spitzer BT Something a little bigger than BIB 110. I would kick in some money. One of the gentlemen in this thread told me the problem is getting the jackets made and the makers want a big order which would be expensive!
 
RGRobinett said:
Yes, Lee's BrC thread was excellent! Unfortunately, a collection of, "bullet maker" methods/concepts, solicited by [the late] Wilbur Harris (BrC founder) was, during a format change, "lost" in cyber-space. There wasn't a lot of stinginess displayed by the top notch bullet makers of that era - about thirty years ago.o_O

This thread seems to be turning into something unusually useful - thank you, Al, and all who have contributed useful info.

Really, there are no secrets, nor, are there magic formulas involved: bullet making is a very simple, straight forward process. The "secrets" are simply attributes, procedures, etc. which, over time, anyone with mechanical aptitude, and uncommon (once know as "common") sense will "discover" and assimilate.

The making of precision bullets does require the use of excellent jackets, tooling, and measuring devices - and knowing/learning how to use them. Patience, record keeping, and a good memory are useful attributes, and will facilitate acquiring knowledge.

Some knowledge just cannot be [precisely] shared, as the variables - touched upon in several preceding posts - are ever present, and this includes your die vs. mine: the two dies may "want" differing amounts of lube - yes even carbide dies!o_O So, one can provide a general amount of a specific lube formula, but the dies and Lot-to-Lot variation in the jackets may not be correct/desirable for both dies. The ULTIMATE goal, is UNIFORMITY - the variable set may make this a moving target.

While I'm rambling, with my current Lube Lot, and specific lot of thirty Cal., .925" long J4 jackets, to seat cores, I am using 2.0 Gr. of lube per 1,600 jackets (1.5 buckets) - 0.00125 Gr. per jacket. Consider the economy of scale: trying to apply a uniform amount of lube to a couple of hundred jackets becomes much more difficult target!

To put a fine point on it, were I to lube 200 of these jackets, they'd want .25 Gr. of lube - being "off" by a measly 1/2 of one tenth (0.05Gr.) would amount to a 20% variation . . . :eek: Ten times the variation with the same "miss" for the 2.0 Gr. target.

Lube your jackets, at least, a bucket at a time . . . for core seating, my current J4 6mm/.790"long jacket are getting the same 2.0 Gr. of lube, but for 1.5 buckets (nice fit in one gallon jar), or, approx. 3,900 pieces: 0.0005128 Gr. each!! o_O

If there is any interest, I may add a few more comments, but my info tends to be relatively boring . . . here's a good example. Hmmmm - it t's a video on my computer at home . . .
View attachment 1614503
Click to expand...
I'd love to hear anything you'd like to share!
 
AlNyhus said:
Joe, from the end of the notched solid section, I have them from 2.075 to 2.525 length. I like to keep them as short as possible. If you bend a pin, you can heat the solid section and twist the pin out. In a pinch, I've made new pins from long 1/16" drill bits and just used the solid section of the drill bit. Mostly, O1 drill rod from McMaster Carr gets used. The ends needs touching up a bit more often but they'll bend instead of breaking and scratching the die. :eek:

Hope this helps. -Al

www.mcmaster.com

McMaster-Carr

McMaster-Carr is the complete source for your plant with over 595,000 products. 98% of products ordered ship from stock and deliver same or next day.
www.mcmaster.com www.mcmaster.com
Click to expand...
Thanks Al!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Classified Ads

Forum statistics

Threads
165,800
Messages
2,203,285
Members
79,110
Latest member
miles813

Share This Page

Back
Top