Time to make the donuts....

[durand mortenson]

Randy, first it was Dave Coots "...naked cat" stuck in my brain. But now, your "...collaboration of lost souls" comment has Pink Floyd's 'Wish You Were Here' rattlin' around up there.

Who is Pink Floyd ?

 

[AlNyhus]

A life time of knowledge is in this thread, thanks for sharing it Al!

Hi Matt. I started making bullets in 2004....just a punk kid compared to many of the real-deal veterans. I had a brief layoff from 2013 to 2020 when I went drag racing (again). In fact, I sold all my bullet making stuff to a good friend. When I decided to get back in competitive BR, I bought the exact setup I had from another pal that I helped get into bullet making years earlier. Wierd how this stuff comes around, isn't it? It's like the .17 calibers.....I've sworn them off many times only to get interested in them again!

Hope all is well with you and yours, my friend. Good shootin' -Al

 

[RGRobinett]

Lee Martin did an excellent article on Benchrest Central on his process. It was lost in the digital vortex until recently being revived.

Another Bullet Making Thread (lots of photos & video)

It has been a few years since the forum had a tutorial on bullet swaging. The thread Stephen Perry started as well as Al Nyhus' were just great. I thought one more couldn't hurt. In January I decided to make my own 6mm bullets for our PPC, BR, and Wasp. After feedback from a few forum...

benchrest.com

Yes, Lee's BrC thread was excellent! Unfortunately, a collection of, "bullet maker" methods/concepts, solicited by [the late] Wilbur Harris (BrC founder) was, during a format change, "lost" in cyber-space. There wasn't a lot of stinginess displayed by the top notch bullet makers of that era - about thirty years ago.

This thread seems to be turning into something unusually useful - thank you, Al, and all who have contributed useful info.

Really, there are no secrets, nor, are there magic formulas involved: bullet making is a very simple, straight forward process. The "secrets" are simply attributes, procedures, etc. which, over time, anyone with mechanical aptitude, and uncommon (once know as "common") sense will "discover" and assimilate.

The making of precision bullets does require the use of excellent jackets, tooling, and measuring devices - and knowing/learning how to use them. Patience, record keeping, and a good memory are useful attributes, and will facilitate acquiring knowledge.

Some knowledge just cannot be [precisely] shared, as the variables - touched upon in several preceding posts - are ever present, and this includes your die vs. mine: the two dies may "want" differing amounts of lube - yes even carbide dies! So, one can provide a general amount of a specific lube formula, but the dies and Lot-to-Lot variation in the jackets may not be correct/desirable for both dies. The ULTIMATE goal, is UNIFORMITY - the variable set may make this a moving target.

While I'm rambling, with my current Lube Lot, and specific lot of thirty Cal., .925" long J4 jackets, to seat cores, I am using 2.0 Gr. of lube per 1,600 jackets (1.5 buckets) - 0.00125 Gr. per jacket. Consider the economy of scale: trying to apply a uniform amount of lube to a couple of hundred jackets becomes much more difficult target!

To put a fine point on it, were I to lube 200 of these jackets, they'd want .25 Gr. of lube - being "off" by a measly 1/2 of one tenth (0.05Gr.) would amount to a 20% variation . . . Ten times the variation with the same "miss" for the 2.0 Gr. target.

Lube your jackets, at least, a bucket at a time . . . for core seating, my current J4 6mm/.790"long jacket are getting the same 2.0 Gr. of lube, but for 1.5 buckets (nice fit in one gallon jar), or, approx. 3,900 pieces: 0.0005128 Gr. each!!

If there is any interest, I may add a few more comments, but my info tends to be relatively boring . . . here's a good example. Hmmmm - it t's a video on my computer at home . . .

 

[Old Navy]

Unlike other carbs that meter fuel by design, QJets were designed to be sophisticated 'air leaks'....the fuel metering was a byproduct of the air bleed off. Once you grasp that concept, they're easier to work with than a Holley.

Nothing easier than the AFB that was on my 62 SS.

 

[D Coots]

Very true what Randy says about all the variables. There is no easy way to buy or read all the info on the process either...you have to put in the time.

I'm still having some problems, and am back "at the drawing board."

Later

Dave

 

[Kevin d]

I’ve been following this thread and haven’t shot any competition the past few years. For the guys following and interested in ppc you basically have 2 choices either buy Pienhardt dies and accessories or buy his bullets or your most likely to be beat by em. Just my thoughts

 

[JoeDuke]

Randy, we look forward to your input on this string as well. The more information, the better. And I do realize there are differences between steel and carbide dies. And it makes sense that there are differences between various carbide dies. And now you tell us processes vary between lots of jackets. My hat is off to you guys for the quality of bullets you make and sell for us to just shoot up.

 

[durand mortenson]

Al , your subject presentations have always been really good and none better than this.
Your time and effort is appreciated.

Mort

 

[Walt Krafft]

Been reading this with interest. My father in law was serious about cast bullet benchrest. He was good at sharing information if you asked the right question. Ask, how do you cast bullets, would get you, melt lead and pour it in a mold. Ask, how does casting temp change as tin is added, and you might be there a couple of hours. The bullet makers are all doing a wonderfull job. Keep it up.

 

[LVLAaron]

Great thread!

 

[jackieschmidt]

Since I had all my stuff out, it was a good time to finish these off. I came into five hundred 1.150" .30 cal J4 jackets years ago and had made 250 of them into 150 gr.'ers to use as a baseline test bullet on various .30 cal. factory and warmed over hunting rifles I tinker with. They flatten white tails and mule deer like crazy, too. Anyway, the stash was running low and it was time to replenish. Jackets were 45.1 gr. and I had some 105 gr. 'hard' cores I'd squirted from 2% antimony. They made up pretty nicely with no raggedy tips from ejecting and just the faintest of pleat lines forward of the metplat. I'm not sure what the jacket wall variation is but in this set of steel dies with this lube, they are a very nice looking bullet. Jacket material mix (copper/zinc ratio) and the state of annealing is something we don't have control over....although a few people do have actual jacket annealing equipment to treat jackets after receiving them. But ugly bullets can shoot great, too.

These bullets out of this 300WSM based hunting rig I did for a pal of mine. He uses it for culling deer from elevated hunting stands. It like a big dose of 760.

 

[D Coots]

??

 

[jackieschmidt]

Very true what Randy says about all the variables. There is no easy way to buy or read all the info on the process either...you have to put in the time.

I'm still having some problems, and am back "at the drawing board."

Later

Dave

Dave, my single biggest problem was getting the lube correct during the core seat. I was simply using too much.

As it turns out, when I finally got it right, the amount I use by percentage is just about the same as what Randy is using in his post #123.

I suppose nothing is more aggravating than having the knock out punch go through the bullets tip, resulting in a stuck bullet. I do have a fool proof way of getting a stuck bullet out of a die without fear of damaging the die. Since I finally got my point up lube correct, and the die set where it is supposed to be, that has not been a problem.

But if you are just getting started, you will sooner or later stick a bullet.

 

[D Coots]

 

[AlNyhus]

If there is any interest, I may add a few more comments, but my info tends to be relatively boring . . .

Randy, that would be great!

 

[AlNyhus]

But if you are just getting started, you will sooner or later stick a bullet.

One of the best pieces of advice Randy gave me was what to do when I stuck a bullet for the first time.

 

[JoeDuke]

One of the best pieces of advice Randy gave me was what to do when I stuck a bullet for the first time.

And that was?

 

[Mulligan]

Yes, Lee's BrC thread was excellent! Unfortunately, a collection of, "bullet maker" methods/concepts, solicited by [the late] Wilbur Harris (BrC founder) was, during a format change, "lost" in cyber-space. There wasn't a lot of stinginess displayed by the top notch bullet makers of that era - about thirty years ago.

This thread seems to be turning into something unusually useful - thank you, Al, and all who have contributed useful info.

Really, there are no secrets, nor, are there magic formulas involved: bullet making is a very simple, straight forward process. The "secrets" are simply attributes, procedures, etc. which, over time, anyone with mechanical aptitude, and uncommon (once know as "common") sense will "discover" and assimilate.

The making of precision bullets does require the use of excellent jackets, tooling, and measuring devices - and knowing/learning how to use them. Patience, record keeping, and a good memory are useful attributes, and will facilitate acquiring knowledge.

Some knowledge just cannot be [precisely] shared, as the variables - touched upon in several preceding posts - are ever present, and this includes your die vs. mine: the two dies may "want" differing amounts of lube - yes even carbide dies! So, one can provide a general amount of a specific lube formula, but the dies and Lot-to-Lot variation in the jackets may not be correct/desirable for both dies. The ULTIMATE goal, is UNIFORMITY - the variable set may make this a moving target.

While I'm rambling, with my current Lube Lot, and specific lot of thirty Cal., .925" long J4 jackets, to seat cores, I am using 2.0 Gr. of lube per 1,600 jackets (1.5 buckets) - 0.00125 Gr. per jacket. Consider the economy of scale: trying to apply a uniform amount of lube to a couple of hundred jackets becomes much more difficult target!

To put a fine point on it, were I to lube 200 of these jackets, they'd want .25 Gr. of lube - being "off" by a measly 1/2 of one tenth (0.05Gr.) would amount to a 20% variation . . . Ten times the variation with the same "miss" for the 2.0 Gr. target.

Lube your jackets, at least, a bucket at a time . . . for core seating, my current J4 6mm/.790"long jacket are getting the same 2.0 Gr. of lube, but for 1.5 buckets (nice fit in one gallon jar), or, approx. 3,900 pieces: 0.0005128 Gr. each!!

If there is any interest, I may add a few more comments, but my info tends to be relatively boring . . . here's a good example. Hmmmm - it t's a video on my computer at home . . .
View attachment 1614503

Please add more info.
CW

 

[AlNyhus]

And that was?

"Don't do anything. Give me a call."

When it happened, I did. One sheet rock screw and a few washers later, my boo-boo was all better. Another positive...I found the bottom end of the lube amount.

 

[jackieschmidt]

"Don't do anything. Give me a call."

When it happened, I did. One sheet rock screw and a few washers later, my boo-boo was all better. Another positive...I found the bottom end of the lube amount.

Bingo.
I put the die in a 3 jaw church in my lathe, drill an appropriate size hole in the base of the bullet, screw the deck screw into the base of the bullet, then using the Jacobs Chuck clamped around the head of the screw to pull the bullet with the tail stock.

I keep this one on my desk to remind me not to stick a bullet.