Three shot group question

[JEFFPPC]

I see this a lot with guys trying to tune their barrel tuners. Since they know they have a lot of settings to test, they lower the number of shots per setting. As a consequence of that, they reduce the validity of any particular node.

All a good 3 shot group ever did for me was justify another 2 or more shots.

A bad 3 shot group is already without hope, but a good 3 shot group is just justification for further testing.

If a 4th or 5th shot ruins the group, then the inspiring 3 shot group is invalidated by default.

If the 4th and 5th shot are inside the good 3 shot group, then the 3 shot group is validated by default.

So, the take away is that 3 shot groups are only useful in eliminating the hopeless.

I was one of the early shooters to get on turners. If your using the tuner to get a load your doing it wrong. Get the load, keep it sharp with the tuner. If you get the load with the tuner your load window is very small.

 

[DangerRanger]

The title says question but I don’t see one in the post, I just see 5 statements

 

[JFrank]

I have used three shot groups to test loads just to save scarce components.
I am of the opinion that a three shot group is of no value in use for bragging rights or as
proof of a rifle or loads accuracy.
Any group competition that I have heard about alaways uses five shot groups.
I am certain everyone here has shot a three shot group that is way better that any five they have shot.
For me any brag about a three is ignored as not valid.

Agreed..What’s the question ?

 

[Lucky Shooter]

Many ways to skin the cat. The two shot group just speeds up
the process.

The two-shot approach is a form of yes, no, maybe for making
decisions on going forward. This sometimes can help you identify
your losers without wasting time and components.

Accentuate the positive, eliminate the negative----save the maybe
in case all else fails.

I've seen people shoot two shots that were bad and automatically
follow this up with three more----never saw the last three make a better
group.

Play the odds-----you just might hit on a two shot start that'll make a
good five.

A. Weldy

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I was one of the early shooters to get on turners. If your using the tuner to get a load your doing it wrong. Get the load, keep it sharp with the tuner. If you get the load with the tuner your load window is very small.

With a tuner on a centerfire rifle, I use 3 shot groups as I move the tuner a mark at a time during initial tuner set up. One 3 shot group means little by itself but not if the groups on both sides of a sweet spot are repeatable in terms of size and shape. If I have a bug hole at one setting and groups for a couple of marks on both sides of that setting give me the shapes I look for, then I'm essentially using five 3 shot groups to validate the setting.

 

[JFrank]

I can picture a senario where more shots make a group better, let’s imagine the first two shots are
1 1/2 c-t-c at 500 yards followed by three more shots inside the first two.

How is that not better ?

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I can picture a senario where more shots make a group better, let’s imagine the first two shots are
1 1/2 c-t-c at 500 yards followed by three more shots inside the first two.

How is that not better ?

Because it's still an 1-1/2" group. Now, if you look at it as two groups, your 3 shot group is better than your 2 shot group.

 

[drover]

When doing load development I shoot a 3 shot group, if it looks promising I shoot another 3 shot goup into the first group, if both of them look good I then shoot a 5 shot group. If it is good I call the load good.

drover

 

[JFrank]

Because it's still an 1-1/2" group. Now, if you look at it as two groups, your 3 shot group is better than your 2 shot group.

True, but here’s how my twisted mind works - at 5 in at 500 yds I figure that pretty good place to be, but if only 2 rounds are sent downrange i’m left wondering/assuming if the rest stay in or go further out.

So it’s the old sad first then happy ending..

 

[Gary C]

The unasked question,
Does anyone else wonder why someone would show or state the three shot group size as
a groups size?
I never understood the practice.

 

[jelenko]

I can picture a senario where more shots make a group better, let’s imagine the first two shots are
1 1/2 c-t-c at 500 yards followed by three more shots inside the first two.

How is that not better ?

The size of the group did not get smaller.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The unasked question,
Does anyone else wonder why someone would show or state the three shot group size as
a groups size?
I never understood the practice.

I use 3 shot groups on hunting rifles a 5 on everything else. Tuner setup excluded. Even with that, I still spend considerable time learning the gun and the load, and how that corresponds with a tuner during practice, after the load and "base" tuner setting is established. Really no different than what I'd do without a tuner at that point. Just learn what to do and when, to keep it shooting all the time. I call it practice and that's where matches are won and where they're lost. I shoot short range BR and there is a common misconception about equipment and buying wins. You buy them alright, at the practice bench. No amount of money and no equipment can buy wins in that crowd....they've all got good equipment...mostly. You have to out work them. Simple as that.

 

[JFrank]

The size of the group did not get smaller.

Nope but i think it got better.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Nope but i think it got better.

Not if it's still 1.5". Lol! I guess it just boils down to whether you want to count all five or just the latter ones. Yes, you may well have improved it so shoot another 5 shot group and see if it holds up. I can't agree with you're theory because it's still 1.5", but yes, you might have theorettically found something that will actually shoot inside of those first two shots. Go play! Lol!

 

[6BRA]

I was shooting 200 yds last week.
load development. My first 3 shots with lowest powder charge went in the same hole. The next 2 round pulled over 1/2 inch away. The next charge .1 gr higher, had 5 shots in 11/4 inches. the next 3 charges in increments of .1 gr....you could cover all 3 5 shot groups outside to outside with nickel. I am sorry...3 shots aint enough.

 

[Dave M.]

I have used three shot groups to test loads just to save scarce components.
I am of the opinion that a three shot group is of no value in use for bragging rights or as
proof of a rifle or loads accuracy.
Any group competition that I have heard about alaways uses five shot groups.
I am certain everyone here has shot a three shot group that is way better that any five they have shot.
For me any brag about a three is ignored as not valid.

I use three shot groups to narrow down my correct charge weight or even seating depth. I will always go back and shoot 5-7 shot groups to verify my initial findings.

 

[Brians356]

Depends on the application. For big game, a cold-barrel one-shot group on a paper plate and you're good to go.
-

 

[D Coots]

May as well go with a two shot group because after that the group will not get any smaller.

How about 1 shot, that might be smaller....

 

[xswanted]

I shoot some fancy 1 shot groups.

 

[dthomas]

I shoot some fancy 1 shot groups.

All my 1 shot groups are in the zeros.