Thoughts on rebarreling a howa action.

[kendog]

Nat, are you saying the Howa's are case-hardened?

I did call Weatherby and confirmed Vanguard/Howa actions are cast.

Funny, I spoke to them yesterday and the guy in the "Custom Shop" told me they are forged. I would have to agree. I have three in my shop right now (2 Howa 1500's and one Vanguard) and they appear either forged, or machined from billet material. If they are cast, they do one hell of a job completely removing all signs of that method of manufacture.
Put one beside a Ruger 77 or a Parker Hale 98 and compare them.

 

[therifler]

i guess i got in on this alittle late but i also wonder why not just rebarrel with the metric thread ? most modern lathes are set up for most metrics i have done several on my jet. i understand not all lathes have metric capablities but your barrel makers should be able to turn a metric tennon for you and you could still chamber and headspace. T.R.

 

[kendog]

I do a few Howa jobs a year. When I do, I order the blanks with the metric tennon already turned from Douglas.

 

[Phil3]

Nat, are you saying the Howa's are case-hardened?

I did call Weatherby and confirmed Vanguard/Howa actions are cast.

You may want to read this Howa document. See under "Barreled Actions".

http://www.howarifles.eu/1.html

Phil

 

[jscandale]

Just read that. I don't know much about Howas action, but from what I can see, they are pretty nice. According to Howa, they are certainly not case hardened, investment cast, or anything other than forged steel.
There has been some misinfo passed around...

JS

 

[Phil3]

I like them, and while I have only now, I plan to build all future rifles on the action. I just wish there barreled actions came just with action and not the barrel. But at $504 for a blued action/barrel and a bit more for stainless, I can't complain. A fair selection of common calibers. The M16 style extractor, forged one piece bolt, flat bottom receiver with integral recoil lug, surprisingly good trigger, 3 position safety (bolt lock), all look good to me. I have had several people now tell me that the internal mag (hinged floor plate) will fire 6mmBR rounds as is. I personally cannot vouch for that, but I know Remingtons need work to pull this off. Later on, I will be trying to feed the Howa 6mmBRs and will report on how that goes.

Some don't like the metric threads on the barrel (which is reputedly on there with massive torque), but in my opinion, any good gunsmith should be able to handle metric threads. There are people out there who will add another bolt knob, finish a barrel in metric, make scope rails (mine is Murphy Precision), and detachable mag setups (i.e., CDI). Howa also makes their own with polymer bottom metal (polymer) and polymer mags for less than $100. Some say they feel cheap, but a guy on Midway said he drove over one in a truck and it did not break. I don't care for the mag release lever in front of the mag, but for the money.

Anyway, good luck with it. Let us know how it goes.

Phil

 

[jscandale]

I really don't see what all the hubub is about the metric thread. A thread's a thread man. I don't cut many metrics, but all I would have to do is change one gear on the side of the lathe and shazam, it's metric. Whoda thunk it??

JS

 

[boltman223]

The only hubub I have with the metric thread is, I am unable to cut metric threads with my lathe.

 

[Phil3]

My lathe won't either, but then that is one reason I am considering replacing it. - Phil

 

[boltman223]

Phil3 I guess if we were good gunsmith we would be able to cut metric threads

But then again I don't consider myself a gunsmith just a hobbyist.

 

[Phil3]

I am not a gunsmith either, and my skills define me as an amateur hobbyist for sure. My current lathe (Southbend 9" from 1946) could not do metric without some gear changing (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/south-bend-lathes/southbend-9-metric-threads-129132/). And while it is long enough (54" total bed) to thread a barrel, it would have to be done without the barrel going through the headstock spindle.

Phil

 

[jscandale]

Phil,

Are there, or were there ever gears available for your lathe to cut metric threads? I would guess if there ever were, you'd be able to hunt for them and most likely find them in a few months or so. Sounds like a worthwhile project.

JS

 

[Phil3]

For some old Southbends, yes.

http://www.tools4cheap.net/proddetail.php?prod=metgears

This is a lot of info, but useful. http://www.lathes.co.uk/southbend9-inch/

Phil

 

[boltman223]

I have an old south bend 10L. Are th saying there might be gears for cutting metric threads available for it?!

 

[boltman223]

Well I just answered my own question.thanks for the links phill. I'm going to have to find sun's greats now!

Sorry for the hijack.

 

[TRECustom]

The problem with most of our lathes is that the lead screw is inch pattern. The spud gearing or the quickchange transmission can usually be set for metric thread pitches, but because the leadscrew is an inch thread, you can't pick up a metric thread in the normal way. You have to work the carriage, crossfeed and compound without disengaging the threading lever halfnut. Tricky, easy to mess up, at least for me, but can be done.

Tom

 

[therifler]

well aside from the fact that these fine old lathes can't turn metric threads they are pretty good machines ?If so stick to guns with american threads . although howa is a pretty good rifle and has a very solid action for building a very accurate rifle . at least all mine were shooters . metric gears for south bend lathes sounds interesting . T.R.

 

[Phil3]

My Southbend 9" is good, but the headstock bearing closest to the chuck has .0015" clearance, which is on the loose side, and nothing can be done about it, except replace the entire headstock casting. The hardened spindle runs in headstock iron. Those plain bearings have grooves in it, running with the axis of the spindle, but once the iron is worn, new headstock. Add in non-hardened ways, and some wear and one has to know the foibles of the machine to doing any accurate work. It does not have flame hardened ways, headstock roller bearings, non-threaded chuck, or direct reading dials and uses rare and expensive 3C collets (I don't have). And of course no metric. Accessories for Southbends are pricey. It makes me start to look at newer stuff (China, Taiwan).

Phil

 

[jscandale]

Pretty much off topic, but...
There sure are a lot of old South Bends out there that are still in great condition and capable of accomplishing most tasks very well. Chambering barrels is not on the difficult end of the machining spectrum, so those lathes are just great. Like all things, they wear out if heavuly used and unfortunately are relagated to scrap after many decades of wonderful use.

Today's lathes that are made in China an Taiwan are very good. Some are not, but most are suprisingly accurate and provide years of excellent use. I have 2 Chinese Grizzly lathes that are discontinued by Grizzly, but are still carried by Jet and Summit and a few other importers as one of the work horses of their offerings. I really put both of the lathes through their paces with lots of contouring using coolant and also do a lot of shafts and hydraulic work for a local steel fab company. So far, I am very impressed with their performance for the last ten years. I'll probably start looking at a CNC lathe soon, but have no plans of selling these lathes just due to their reliability and performance.

JS