urbanrifleman
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I was a mechanical engineer for 25 years. So, yes... Hahaha
This is why I have trust issues
- Thread starter 6Creed73
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I was a mechanical engineer for 25 years. So, yes... Hahaha
I'm a Systems Engineer for a fortune 100 and have a slight case of OCD lol. So I get double the frustration while trying to pursue perfect...which I know isn't possible, yet still try. It's a sickness
urbanrifleman
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I start to wonder sometimes if the pursuit of these mythical "tolerances" just an unhealthy distraction from the actual shooting. I understand being OCD, I was a design engineer for well over 20 years and was always a perfectionist, I also was quite unhappy a lot of the time and got horrible sleep. And I honestly doubt that any of this stuff would actually show up on the target. Most people simply can't shoot well enough, because they're not spending their time shooting. And almost none of this is actually tested, like in an actual test done with some type of scientific controls in place to show that it actually makes any difference. I am very suspect of some of the claims that it actually makes any difference.
I've shot groups with ammunition that were nearly touching bullets at a thousand plus yards with brand new ammunition and brand new brass. Not made specifically for my chamber or anything like that. I do not claim to shoot like that by the way. I didn't actually go down and measure the groups I was just looking at the splats on the steel. The splats were nearly touching is what I should have said.
No one was more surprised than me by the way. And I was shooting with a guy who has set multiple world records and he said that he didn't think the brass was any better than the first time you use it It just gets worse after that.
I've shot groups with ammunition that were nearly touching bullets at a thousand plus yards with brand new ammunition and brand new brass. Not made specifically for my chamber or anything like that. I do not claim to shoot like that by the way. I didn't actually go down and measure the groups I was just looking at the splats on the steel. The splats were nearly touching is what I should have said.
No one was more surprised than me by the way. And I was shooting with a guy who has set multiple world records and he said that he didn't think the brass was any better than the first time you use it It just gets worse after that.
I agree 100%. The odds are a lot of the things we do won't show up on target and can make the process more frustrating than it needs to be. So why do we do it? I have no idea...
JEFFPPC
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No, almost 50 years in the auto repair service industry, Mostly at the Dealer level trying to repair what the shade trees screwed up. Guy spends 500.00 to 1000.00 getting components thrown at a problem then comes to us in desperation. So we charge him a 100.00 to diagnose, properly, and 60.00 to repair , properly, and customer says 160.00, I already spent 866.89 at 3 other shops. Good, go ask for your money back. Best thing to ever happen to consumers is how well today's vehicles are engineered and how long they run well with minimal care. But let the Blutooth connection get a glitch and it now is just a POS. There are some very good independent shops but a lot have minimally trained folks especially in electronics that get involved in repairs they would be better off to pass on.
urbanrifleman
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Honestly, it seems to be some form of a religion. Which is made worse by the internet. Like people encouraging each other to be even more OCD. Like some kind of a contest. But that does seem to be the nature of the internet, in that people are constantly trying to outdo one another. Especially in things that don't make any difference.
That was just my little soap box. I talk to customers everyday and I discourage them from going down rabbit holes in reloading and measuring tolerances and etc etc etc. I encourage them to get some wind flags and learn how to shoot. Honestly, I think my customers appreciate it. I like to think I'm a good coach, and I keep people focused on what's important. So, that way they will be happy customers, and they'll come back to me happy. Which is what I want. Happy people.
That being said I'm the first person to encourage someone to change their reloading practices to ones that work. Changing to a Wilson style seating die for example. And learning how to feel the neck tension and change bushings accordingly will absolutely show up on the target almost immediately. Changing to a non-temperature sensitive powder will show up on the target almost immediately. There are things you can do that do not require OCD.
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I'm certainly not an auto mechanic, but consider myself capable. I think the key is to know your limits and be willing to admit those limits. I spent 8 years doing a frame off restoration on this BelAir...but I knew when I needed an actual professional. I can't bore a block or do paint and body work...but had no problem building the motor from the bare block, installing the wiring harness, etc.
I have no issue with people learning and doing things themselves...just know your limits and get the proper help when needed.
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I agree with others, the the method the op is using is bass ackward, but if it works for him, thats great. The go gauge length is irrelevant to shoulder bump except to say that if he's only bumping them back when they reach .005 longer than the go gauge, the chamber is likely about .006 longer than the gauge, which is out of spec for most cartridges...without looking his up. At best, it's at max length. Most, not all, chamberings are .004 or .005 from go to no-go.
Again, if it works for the op, great but it's not the way I think setting shoulder bump should be done. It sounds like his goal might be to put his ammo back to saami min but even that's not correct, either. Not sure of the logic but there is a right way to do this and this isn't it. But again, hey, if it works for him, great. I think it's a case of overthinking a simple job to the point of thinking wrong. Lol!
OP, you've been given good advice. I suggest you re-think your process and listen to those trying to be of help.
Again, if it works for the op, great but it's not the way I think setting shoulder bump should be done. It sounds like his goal might be to put his ammo back to saami min but even that's not correct, either. Not sure of the logic but there is a right way to do this and this isn't it. But again, hey, if it works for him, great. I think it's a case of overthinking a simple job to the point of thinking wrong. Lol!
OP, you've been given good advice. I suggest you re-think your process and listen to those trying to be of help.
Nice looking car
This! I'm out of the dealerships now. I will defer to the dealer on problems our shop can't properly address. They have equipment we don't have.
urbanrifleman
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True.
Lol...again, you're not understanding what I'm doing. I'm not sizing back to SAAMI min. I'm using the redding gauge exactly as it's intended to be used. I know that the chamber for this particular rifle is .005 longer than the Redding gauge. The gauge only acts as a constant to compare cases. So if a case comes in at .004 over, I will bump those cases only .001. If a case is .005 over, I'll set the die to bump .002, if a case is .003 over, I won't bump it at all. It's a very quick and repeatable way to determine where to set the die. I have hundreds of sized cases...you can pick them out at random and every single one of them will measure the same because I bump them all to the exact same spot.
If I ever get to speak to someone at Redding, I'll be sure to tell them it's bass ackward though.
One of my goals for the last three years is to make my reloading simpler. I am a industrial piping designer by trade. I know the OCD thing well so I had turned reloading into work.
Once I let go of the constant OCD in reloading my life became simpler and more enjoyable. My targets are fine so I haven’t hurt anything.
Once I let go of the constant OCD in reloading my life became simpler and more enjoyable. My targets are fine so I haven’t hurt anything.
I think some people aren't familiar with this tool so here's a quick demonstration of what I do so we can put this to bed. In the video I failed to mention a key bit of info. The reason I can use the Redding gauge as the zero is because I know that my max chamber is .005 over the gauge. So when I show that a fired piece of brass is reading .003 over the gauge/zero...I won't bump that piece because I know it's already .002 shorter than max, which is my desired bump. If a fired piece measures .004 over the gauge, I know to bump that only .001 which will get me to my desired .002 under my max chamber.
However, my original post has absolutely nothing to do with this process, it was simply an observation that two gauges meant to represent SAAMI min aren't the same.
However, my original post has absolutely nothing to do with this process, it was simply an observation that two gauges meant to represent SAAMI min aren't the same.
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6creed73 I measured my Redding Instant Indicator gauges against my like chamber go gauges and they are dead nuts. One of your gauges is off. Try to locate a 3rd for the tie breaker. I would lean toward the ground Forster being correct vs the lathe turned Redding, but that's just a guess.
Any chance the brass Redding has a groove in it at the contact point? Maybe someone jammed it in a chamber or the RII die to hard.
Any chance the brass Redding has a groove in it at the contact point? Maybe someone jammed it in a chamber or the RII die to hard.
You may be right. It doesn't really matter for this application though. I know my chamber size in relation to the Redding gauge...it only acts as the "zero" to compare fired brass against. The only thing that matters is the Redding gauge is a constant that can be used as a zero. But it's useless in this application unless you know the size of your chamber in relation to the gauge.
I just found it interesting that two gauges being sold as SAAMI min are different sizes. I didn't mean for this thread to go way into the weeds
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