This is why I have trust issues

[59FLH]

Roger that

 

[gdbleb]

To me, it's just a simple case of OCD, nothing more, nothing less.

Buy 10 copies of the same gage from the same manufacturer but different vendors and compare those!

 

[6Creed73]

The last thing I'll say on this is I know there are many ways to accomplish something and everyone thinks their method is the correct way. I'll never knock anyone for their process even if it's not the way I do it. Everyone tries to balance speed and accuracy and have developed a process to do that.

I provide my opinion when it's appropriate and I always take other opinions seriously, I would not be where I am today with reloading if I didn't take the advice from others. But I will never knock anyone else for not doing it the way I do.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

This guy appears to use the supplied gauge just to make sure his chamber isn't way out of spec, but then uses fired brass to set his tool to and uses that measurement against his sized brass measurement. This is how it's done by most people. That gauge included has never been fired in your chamber and its dimensions are irrelevant to your shoulder bump. I get that you are using it at a baseline but I don't get why you don't just use a fired case, like everyone else...and that you used to establish your .005 dimension from. It doesn't matter to me as long as what you do works for you. It's just..different is all.

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Here is Redding describes the tasks the tool is intended for. Third task down...

Instant Indicator Headspace and Bullet Comparator - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

Reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers, custom dies, bullet casting equipment, powder measuring and weighing equipment, bullet seating dies

www.redding-reloading.com

 

[c3d4b2]

I was a mechanical engineer for 25 years. So, yes... Hahaha

Once an engineer, always an engineer

 

[6Creed73]

This guy appears to use the supplied gauge just to make sure his chamber isn't way out of spec, but then uses fired brass to set his tool to and uses that measurement against his sized brass measurement. This is how it's done by most people. That gauge included has never been fired in your chamber and its dimensions are irrelevant to your shoulder bump. I get that you are using it at a baseline but I don't get why you don't just use a fired case, like everyone else...and that you used to establish your .005 dimension from. It doesn't matter to me as long as what you do works for you. It's just..different is all.

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Here is Redding describes the tasks the tool is intended for. Third task down...

Instant Indicator Headspace and Bullet Comparator - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

Reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers, custom dies, bullet casting equipment, powder measuring and weighing equipment, bullet seating dies

www.redding-reloading.com

Just because you shoot a cartridge in your chamber, that does not mean that brass is now the size of your chamber. When fired, brass expands to the size of your chamber, then contracts. And they all don't contract exactly the same...even brass from the same lot. It could take several firings to get a piece of brass that actually matches the chamber...for me it was 4x.

Yes, I could zero the indicator to that piece of brass and compare all my other brass against that. But why take a piece of my brass out of commission to serve only as a gauge? That's actually why Redding supplies the gauge with this tool. So once you have completely fire formed a case, you can zero the indicator to the Redding gauge, then put in your fire formed case. This now tells you exactly the size of your chamber in comparison to the gauge. You only have to do this once. Now I can resize that piece of brass, but I still have what I need, because I know .005 over the gauge is my chamber absolute max. It doesn't matter that the Redding gauge has nothing to do with my chamber, all that matters is that the gauge is absolute...it never changes.

We are splitting hairs now. Whether you use a fire formed case, or index off a gauge, it accomplishes the same thing.

 

[6Creed73]

This guy appears to use the supplied gauge just to make sure his chamber isn't way out of spec, but then uses fired brass to set his tool to and uses that measurement against his sized brass measurement. This is how it's done by most people. That gauge included has never been fired in your chamber and its dimensions are irrelevant to your shoulder bump. I get that you are using it at a baseline but I don't get why you don't just use a fired case, like everyone else...and that you used to establish your .005 dimension from. It doesn't matter to me as long as what you do works for you. It's just..different is all.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Here is Redding describes the tasks the tool is intended for. Third task down...

Instant Indicator Headspace and Bullet Comparator - Redding Reloading Equipment: reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers and SAECO bullet casting equipment

Reloading equipment for rifles, handguns, pistols, revolvers, custom dies, bullet casting equipment, powder measuring and weighing equipment, bullet seating dies

www.redding-reloading.com

This is a longer video because he goes over all the functions of the tool. But if you go to about the 11:40 to 15:05ish...he goes over how to use the tool to get your chamber size compared to SAAMI min.

I'm not saying the way I do things is how anyone else should do it. Do what works for you. But this method allows me to quickly and accurately determine exactly how much to bump the shoulder.

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[Infrequent Shooter]

I'm certainly not an auto mechanic, but consider myself capable. I think the key is to know your limits and be willing to admit those limits. I spent 8 years doing a frame off restoration on this BelAir...but I knew when I needed an actual professional. I can't bore a block or do paint and body work...but had no problem building the motor from the bare block, installing the wiring harness, etc.

I have no issue with people learning and doing things themselves...just know your limits and get the proper help when needed.


View attachment 1467554
View attachment 1467555

Wow, beautiful.

 

[6Creed73]

Wow, beautiful.

Thank you...a labor of love for sure!

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Thank you...a labor of love for sure!

I know you must be super proud of the work, I would show that to anyone who would stop and listen!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Just because you shoot a cartridge in your chamber, that does not mean that brass is now the size of your chamber. When fired, brass expands to the size of your chamber, then contracts. And they all don't contract exactly the same...even brass from the same lot. It could take several firings to get a piece of brass that actually matches the chamber...for me it was 4x.

Yes, I could zero the indicator to that piece of brass and compare all my other brass against that. But why take a piece of my brass out of commission to serve only as a gauge? That's actually why Redding supplies the gauge with this tool. So once you have completely fire formed a case, you can zero the indicator to the Redding gauge, then put in your fire formed case. This now tells you exactly the size of your chamber in comparison to the gauge. You only have to do this once. Now I can resize that piece of brass, but I still have what I need, because I know .005 over the gauge is my chamber absolute max. It doesn't matter that the Redding gauge has nothing to do with my chamber, all that matters is that the gauge is absolute...it never changes.

We are splitting hairs now. Whether you use a fire formed case, or index off a gauge, it accomplishes the same thing.

And you came up with that .005, how? By your fired brass.....your words, not mine. I'm done arguing. I've said it multiple times...if your way works for you, that's great. That has not changed, sir.

 

[6Creed73]

And you came up with that .005, how? By your fired brass.....your words, not mine. I'm done arguing. I've said it multiple times...if your way works for you, that's great. That has not changed, sir.

Yes, of course I came up with it from my fired brass. What I'm saying is there is no reason to keep that fired case around since the gauge can be used from that point forward...I really don't know why it's so hard to understand.

Either way...thanks for all your input. Discussion is always welcomed.

 

[XTR]

At the end of the day does it really matter?

If so, why exactly?

I understand your frustration but it only matters if it matters in practical use.

Actually….. if you are shooting F-TR in international competition your chamber must close on a 308 SAAMI go gage, and cannot on a no-go. I was checked in ‘17 at the FCWC in Canada.
The reason you have to close on the “go” is to prevent someone changing the shoulder angle.

Since ‘16 I’ve had all of my chambers cut +.002.

Before the 17 worlds the US FTR team got a go that was identical to the one DCRA was using.

 

[59FLH]

I always wondered if the RII had an application for pumpers, auto loaders, and lever actions. That would seem to make the included gauge as useful as a Hornady case gauge.

 

[mauser284]

I agree it is a a very real problem! The ignorance is bless if it does not blow your hand off or cost you an eye argument is not really the point is it?

 

[mauser284]

I have trust issues because the love of my life at the time that I was engaged to cheated on me the second I left Germany to come stateside! It was only going to be about 6 months before I arranged for her to to come state side. Yes there was a ring on that finger! Took a good 5 years before I would do more than have friends with benefits or random 1 night stands!

So if this is the source of your trust issues I would say you got off easy my man! LOL

 

[ebb]

I have trust issues because candidates for office are broke as me, but after they have been in office for a while they mysteriously become rich, but the paycheck they get from the government is not even close to making them that wealthy.

 

[Webster]

My point was that the specs have a range. I'm not saying they are both within spec, which I can't do from the information provided, but they could be.

Good point. They are machined to a +/- tolorence. What's the spec?

 

[Webster]

I'll add that I'm well aware that my OCD is showing.

Reloading is a paradox for me...on one hand I love reloading because I'm such a precise person. On the other hand, sometimes I hate reloading because I'm such a precise person

You have to be practical. Using the rifle is more important than spending hours worrying bout something that doesn't affect the rifles performance. All that matters is can you reload the cases and make good safe ammo and does it shoot small groups. Everything is a waste of time.

 

[Bottom Fodder]

Never forget, no engineer was ever as smart as the back yard shade tree mechanic.

I resemble that remark and proud of it, only problem my shade tree died long time ago