This is why I have trust issues

[DaveTooley]

I already know at what point my rifle will start to get a heavy bolt. And that's what I use the indicator for, it's way faster. I've already done the work to determine the exact measurement in comparison to the headspace gauge. So I "zero" the indicator to the headspace gauge, and I know if I put a fired case in and it's .005 more than the headspace gauge then it's time to bump the shoulder .002. It's fast and repeatable.

So your brass isn't growing .005".
Your chamber is your, unique to you, go gage +.005". Not exactly min spec.
Why not set your zero to the bumped length that functions well?

 

[Dgd6mm]

Isn't this making a mountain out of a mole hill?

 

[DaveTooley]

I'll add that it's been my experience that if you wait for a case to grow, to the point of needing FL sizing, it has work hardened at the longer length. FL sizing will get it back in the rifle but the problem will persist. I recommend FL sizing from the beginning.

 

[K22]

The final arbiter is your rifle chamber. Assuming you are shooting a bolt action, remove the firing pin assembly and ejector. Then size a case down 0.001 at a time until the bolt just barely falls freely. Measure this case with both gauges. Even if the measurements still differ by .002 they will give you the correct headspace measurement for your rifle. If you want a slightly looser headspace just add .001 to either measurement. When loading for accuracy headspace gauges are relative, you can’t always translate a measurement taken on one gauge to another. If you think this is bad trying to measure bullet seating depth with two different gauges can be even worse, and even your rifle chamber will change as the throat wears.

In the old days before bump and SAMMI case gauges, this is the way it was done by advanced reloaders to obtain the optimum amount of sizing; you set you FL die up based on the rifle chamber (firing pin assembly removed) to assess the degree of force to close the bolt. While somewhat tedious, it worked quite well.

While bump gauges have made the process more efficient, I agree, the ultimate gauge is your rifle chamber. I always spot check my sizing that was set up with a bump gauge against the rifle chamber.

 

[divingin]

Yes, I know SAAMI is a tolerance. This is a go gauge which is supposed to represent the absolute minium of that tolerance. There is also a gauge that represents the maximum of that tolerance...everything in between is the tolerance range.

If you read the definition, the shortest chamber (Go gauge) is made to fit the longest "in spec" ammunition (also a SAAMI measurement.) This implies that it is for use with factory ammo, and specced so everything is pretty much sure to work interchangeably.

IMO, all (well, OK - a lot of) that goes out the window when you start reloading. doesn't matter if your chamber is shorter or longer than what SAAMI allows, unless you are going to be also shooting factory ammunition. If not interchanging with factory ammo, you'll be sizing the brass based on the actual chamber dimensions, and the standards won't matter. That does imply you have a good grasp on what you're doing, of course (I mention this as a friend of mine who has been reloading for years has recently had to have some *very* basic reloading concepts forcefully explained to him.)

Note that I am not advocating tossing the standards; just saying they are designated for manufacturers (in order to promote safe interchangeability) rather than consumers (and even less so, reloaders.)

 

[ebb]

If you had only bought one you could have assumed it was right and never had any doubts.

 

[6Creed73]

If you had only bought one you could have assumed it was right and never had any doubts.

As I mentioned in earlier comments, I didn't buy it. A guy I shoot with was getting rid of all his 6CM stuff and this came with the lot. I checked it against my Redding purely out of curiosity. I've been using the Redding for a long time as a comparator to sort brass and will continue to use the Redding. It was just an observation

 

[59FLH]

Check to see if there is a piece of tape stuck to the bottom of the Forster gauge.

 

[tthomp302]

Nah, it probably doesn't matter to most people. I'm just a very precise person by nature and like for my tools to be precise also.

I mostly use it to sort my brass for sizing. The gauge acts as the standard and I know when I get .005 over that standard, I bump the shoulder. Again, not a huge deal...but does show not all tools are what they say they are.

You’re a “precise person” but you aren’t loading to your actual chamber and are sizing everything back to min spec?? That doesn’t seem precise to me.

 

[6Creed73]

You’re a “precise person” but you aren’t loading to your actual chamber and are sizing everything back to min spec?? That doesn’t seem precise to me.

No, you just don't understand and it's unfortunate that I have to explain it again. The gauge acts as a baseline for me to compare a fire formed case. Zero the indicator to the gauge, take a fire formed case and compare...now I know exactly the size of my chamber in comparison to the gauge. Now I can quickly see which cases need a shoulder bump and how much, simply by comparing them against the baseline. Get it?

 

[tthomp302]

No, you just don't understand and it's unfortunate that I have to explain it again. The gauge acts as a baseline for me to compare a fire formed case. Zero the indicator to the gauge, take a fire formed case and compare...now I know exactly the size of my chamber in comparison to the gauge. Now I can quickly see which cases need a shoulder bump and how much, simply by comparing them against the baseline. Get it?

Seems like a long detour around a very simple operation. You should be bumping about 2 thou off of whatever the fired brass is. I guess I don’t see it necessary at all to have the min spec brass to be able to understand that. So no, I don’t get it.

 

[6Creed73]

Seems like a long detour around a very simple operation. You should be bumping about 2 thou off of whatever the fired brass is. I guess I don’t see it necessary at all to have the min spec brass to be able to understand that. So no, I don’t get it.

You realize brass doesn't form to the chamber after 1 firing, right? Not only that, different brass will form differently. I fire formed a piece of brass 4x so it was completely formed, that gave me chamber max and something to compare against the baseline. Now the baseline can be used to compare brass that is in different stages of fireforming. Some may need to be bumped and some may not. This tells me exactly how much bump I need.

Redding makes the tool exactly for this purpose. It's not rocket science.

 

[tthomp302]

You realize brass doesn't form to the chamber after 1 firing, right? Not only that, different brass will form differently. I fire formed a piece of brass 4x so it was completely formed, that gave me chamber max and something to compare against the baseline. Now the baseline can be used to compare brass that is in different stages of fireforming. Some may need to be bumped and some may not. This tells me exactly how much bump I need.

Redding makes the tool exactly for this purpose. It's not rocket science.

View attachment 1467495

Fire forming a case 4 times?? Yeah no thanks. I have competitions to shoot and I’m not going to waste 4 firings on a piece of brass. I measure every piece of brass after it’s fired and bump it 2 thou no matter what it measures. If you have a consistent load, consistent methods of case prep, and a good chamber, those numbers will be consistent. If the headspace is longer, I still just bump it 2 thou.

Like you said, it’s not rocket science.

 

[Ledd Slinger]

Fire forming a case 4 times?? Yeah no thanks. I have competitions to shoot and I’m not going to waste 4 firings on a piece of brass. I measure every piece of brass after it’s fired and bump it 2 thou no matter what it measures. If you have a consistent load, consistent methods of case prep, and a good chamber, those numbers will be consistent. If the headspace is longer, I still just bump it 2 thou.

Like you said, it’s not rocket science.

That's what I do. If the case ends up being a thou or two longer after more firings, I adjust my FL die accordingly to maintain .002" bump

 

[wildcatter]

SAAMI is not a spec, it is a tolerance. Are both within that tolerance? If so, ok. We all should be adjusting our dies to match our chambers and not the gauge anyway.

Finally a proper perspective! If one of my Rifles would chamber factory fodder, I would diagnose it as time for a new chamber!!

My brass, sized to MY die, is my gauge! This way I have one gauge that matters. And the store bought crap don't. Makes life simple, and stress free.

Because it works

 

[urbanrifleman]

Nah, it probably doesn't matter to most people. I'm just a very precise person by nature and like for my tools to be precise also.

I mostly use it to sort my brass for sizing. The gauge acts as the standard and I know when I get .005 over that standard, I bump the shoulder. Again, not a huge deal...but does show not all tools are what they say they are.

Tolerances.

These dang tolerances in manufacturing. Not to mention measuring. But no one talks about those.

 

[urbanrifleman]

The internet has brought the claims that people can now reload with tolerances that no manufacturer could produce on miliion dollar equipment with a fleet of quality people and checks.

 

[JEFFPPC]

Never forget, no engineer was ever as smart as the back yard shade tree mechanic.

 

[6Creed73]

That's what I do. If the case ends up being a thou or two longer after more firings, I adjust my FL die accordingly to maintain .002" bump

Exactly what I do with the indicator. The indicator allows me to quickly identity which ones need a bump and which ones don't. I don't bump unless it's needed.

 

[59FLH]

Never forget, no engineer was ever as smart as the back yard shade tree mechanic.

You go on Motorcycle forums too huh?