This is why I have trust issues

[6Creed73]

Both of these gauges are supposed to represent the minimum SAAMI headspace. The first one is a Redding gauge and the other is Forster. The Forster is almost 2 thousandths bigger. No idea which one is right.

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[Ned Ludd]

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[6Creed73]

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/ANSI-SAAMI-Z299.4-CFR-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

Thanks...I have that. I know the minimum according to SAAMI but there's no way to measure it to compare to the SAAMI measurement. You'd have to be able to measure at the exact spot on the shoulder that they do...which isn't really possible without having the tool they use. For example, I have 3 different comparators, all of them provide different measurements for the same case.

That's not my beef though, my issue is these both being sold as SAAMI minimum and aren't the same.

 

[kindabitey]

That’s like having 3 watches. You never really know what time it is.

 

[6Creed73]

That’s like having 3 watches. You never really know what time it is.

Truth...just stuff I've collected over the years. I only use one of them obviously.

 

[DShortt]

At the end of the day does it really matter?

If so, why exactly?

I understand your frustration but it only matters if it matters in practical use.

 

[6Creed73]

At the end of the day does it really matter?

If so, why exactly?

I understand your frustration but it only matters if it matters in practical use.

Nah, it probably doesn't matter to most people. I'm just a very precise person by nature and like for my tools to be precise also.

I mostly use it to sort my brass for sizing. The gauge acts as the standard and I know when I get .005 over that standard, I bump the shoulder. Again, not a huge deal...but does show not all tools are what they say they are.

 

[Ned Ludd]

My point was that the specs have a range. I'm not saying they are both within spec, which I can't do from the information provided, but they could be.

 

[6Creed73]

My point was that the specs have a range. I'm not saying they are both within spec, which I can't do from the information provided, but they could be.

I know there is a .01 range from min to max. These are min gauges, there are also max gauges.

 

[6Creed73]

It don't matter what the gauge says if my barrel shoots .2 and my case is sized at .003 bump and I put scotch tape on the base couple pcs and it barely closes I know exactly where I need to be, and what I'm doing

I basically do the same thing, but can do it much faster with the indicator. I know what the dial will indicate when the bolt starts to get tight...so I can identify all the ones that need a bump just by running them through the tool. I can sort 50 in about a minute.

My only issue is tools claiming to be SAAMI minimum when one of them clearly isn't.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I understand that. You stated in the title of the thread that this is why you have trust issues, implying that something nefarious was happening, when it may not be anything like that at all. The only way to know that would to contact each company, find out what their actual target dimension was, as well as their tolerances. The you would need to find out why each had chosen the particular specs they used, if they differed from one another. Otherwise, you're just venting about something that may be nothing.

Edited to add - I had a similar reaction when I first noticed the holes in Sinclair steel caliper inserts were markedly larger in diameter than the comparable holes in Hornady's comparator inserts. Then I figured out that they both had specific uses because of the different sized holes, and I quit worrying about it. Some things can never be explained.

 

[6MMsteve]

I know there is a .01 range from min to max. These are min gauges, there are also max gauges.

long as it's safe and not blowing cases and everything is slawburger...your good, I use to get on the tangent your on, but I quit, I mean some brass the primer pockets are tight some the primer falls in being brand new brass, discoloration of primers, powder that smells good powder that smells like wolf ass, bought 4 barrels and they all shoot different, requested barrels all be made with 3rd cut off new tooling paid extra thought I was on to something, just emptied ma wallet

 

[jdh47]

Everything has tolerance. You can compare them with a optical comparator or profile projector it's just a BWAG. A thousandths indicator is more than likely to give different readings for different gages. The angle could be off by a few seconds and give different results. You can have them checked by a shop with equipment able to accurately measure them but it really doesn't make much difference in my humble opinion. With that setup you are probably going to stack tolerances enough to get erroneous readings.

 

[6Creed73]

I understand that. You stated in the title of the thread that this is why you have trust issues, implying that something nefarious was happening, when it may not be anything like that at all. The only way to know that would to contact each company, find out what their actual target dimension was, as well as their tolerances. The you would need to find out why each had chosen the particular specs they used, if they differed from one another. Otherwise, you're just venting about something that may be nothing.

Edited to add - I had a similar reaction when I first noticed the holes in Sinclair steel caliper inserts were markedly larger in diameter than the comparable holes in Hornady's comparator inserts. Then I figured out that they both had specific uses because of the different sized holes, and I quit worrying about it. Some things can never be explained.

You're probably right, they could be making the gauge within a range. But when it says it represents the minimum SAAMI spec, I guess I expect that to be the case.

As mentioned by others, it really has no implications on how I use it. It just made me raise an eyebrow. I've been using the Redding gauge for a long time and will continue to use it. I only received the Forster because a buddy was getting rid of all his 6CM stuff and this came with the lot...so I decided to check out of curiosity.

 

[6Creed73]

I'll add that I'm well aware that my OCD is showing.

Reloading is a paradox for me...on one hand I love reloading because I'm such a precise person. On the other hand, sometimes I hate reloading because I'm such a precise person

 

[6MMsteve]

I'll add that I'm well aware that my OCD is showing.

Reloading is a paradox for me...on one hand I love reloading because I'm such a precise person. On the other hand, sometimes I hate reloading because I'm such a precise person

Precise is out the window for me, I wonder if I spelled it right

 

[Fast14riot]

SAAMI is not a spec, it is a tolerance. Are both within that tolerance? If so, ok. We all should be adjusting our dies to match our chambers and not the gauge anyway.

 

[WillyTP]

When something like this comes up in my life, I pick one to use and throw the other one over the hill. Shazam, nothing to compare it to makes that one the right one ‍

 

[6Creed73]

When something like this comes up in my life, I pick one to use and throw the other one over the hill. Shazam, nothing to compare it to makes that one the right one ‍

Exactly...Ive been using the Redding forever and will continue to. The Forster was given to me by a guy getting rid of all his 6CM stuff. Of course, my curiosity made me compare the two.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Both of these gauges are supposed to represent the minimum SAAMI headspace. The first one is a Redding gauge and the other is Forster. The Forster is almost 2 thousandths bigger. No idea which one is right.

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what does your tool use as a datum? From base to the proper datum point, where the gage is at that specific diameter is what matters. The angle is not spec'd for the gauge, per se and doesn't need to be. Unless your tool indicates on the actual cartridge datum point, it can and will give a different number for the two. IOW, base to say .375 datum. Not .374 or .376, but precisely .375. Same reasom why most comparators give different numbers.

Also, your method of comparing your brass to a hs guage is likely causing you to bump the shoulders more than is needed or desirable, imo.