Thickness of Newer Lots Of Lapua 220 Russian Brass vs Older Lots.

[BartsBullets]

Thanks, but do you know what the chamber actually measures? You know how things go sometimes. Most likely more clearance than what reamer is? Maybe.I don't know what mine measure either. Just curious if you knew.

Dave, I don’t care what its exact measurement is. The same as I didn’t care about my .262, 268 reamers because they worked. This .273 reamer works and it works well. I’ve been shooting it for a few years. If it didn’t work then I might investigate further. Billy used my reamer on his barrel for the NBRSA Nationals and it shot great for him (2nd 2GUN).

As long as my brass has (for lack of a better term a heart beat) a sine wave going around the neck, the clearance is good.

If your necks are too thick or too tight you get a ring around the top. Too loose you get blow back on the shoulder.

Jackie just has some fat brass with a medium sized bullet.

Bart

 

[D Coots]

Ya, that's true for sure. Don't give a crap if it works. I'm no enguyneer either........if it works.. the proof is on the paper.

Someone needs to poke you with a stick Bart......

Put me in coach...I don't drink or smoke much....

Later
Dave ....

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Dave, I don’t care what its exact measurement is. The same as I didn’t care about my .262, 268 reamers because they worked. This .273 reamer works and it works well. I’ve been shooting it for a few years. If it didn’t work then I might investigate further. Billy used my reamer on his barrel for the NBRSA Nationals and it shot great for him (2nd 2GUN).

As long as my brass has (for lack of a better term a heart beat) a sine wave going around the neck, the clearance is good.

If your necks are too thick or too tight you get a ring around the top. Too loose you get blow back on the shoulder.

Jackie just has some fat brass with a medium sized bullet.

Bart

I don't know..The brass I checked was 100% no doubt, thicker than my last 220r brass. This new brass is right on .015 thick before necking up, with a very good setup for checking it. I do agree that the things you mention are very telling of your brass though. I have no doubt, yours is fine. But the way I checked mine is way better than most. I'm confident in my numbers but I didn't neck it up first. Clearly, your brass is working though. Not doubting you or that at all.
I think this all just means we should check our brass. Not that there's anything right or wrong.
I try to find time tomorrow to check some necked up to 6mm. This does appear to be more than one lot, though.

 

[BartsBullets]

I don't know..The brass I checked was 100% no doubt, thicker than my last 220r brass. This new brass is right on .015 thick before necking up, with a very good setup for checking it. I do agree that the things you mention are very telling of your brass though. I have no doubt, yours is fine. But the way I checked mine is way better than most. I'm confident in my numbers but I didn't neck it up first. Clearly, your brass is working though. Not doubting you or that at all.
I think this all just means we should check our brass. Not that there's anything right or wrong.
I try to find time tomorrow to check some necked up to 6mm. This does appear to be more than one lot, though.

I never dreamed no turned cases would work. I’ve turned cases for 30 + years. Thought those shooting no turned cases were clueless. Then I shot my .272 6BRA and it’s a killer. That’s what made me try it with the 6PPC. The ppc brass was a tad thicker. That’s why I went with a 273 neck instead of a 272.

Now I’ll stir the pot. Do donuts ruin accuracy? My answer…not necessarily depends on where the donut is.

Bart

 

[liljoe]

I have to agree with Dave on the part of measuring the exact diameter of the neck in the barrel. I had this discussion with a few people at the super shoot one year. I said that my reamer cut about a .0005 bigger than it said it was.
Two very well known top tier shooters started to criticize my lack of brains and my poor machining skills. I asked if they had any barrels that I could check. I just happened to have my trusty gauge pins with me. These were .262 diameter necks on these barrels, the same as I was using then. 3 barrels were brought out and they were speechless when I slipped the pins in the chambers.
1 barrel was a very tight fit with a .2620 pin, 1 was a .2625 and the last would easily accept a .2630 pin.
These were 3 identical barrels, same brand and same reamer and chambered by a top smith.
Joe

 

[D Coots]

I like donuts Bart.

 

[D Coots]

I have to agree with Dave on the part of measuring the exact diameter of the neck in the barrel. I had this discussion with a few people at the super shoot one year. I said that my reamer cut about a .0005 bigger than it said it was.
Two very well known top tier shooters started to criticize my lack of brains and my poor machining skills. I asked if they had any barrels that I could check. I just happened to have my trusty gauge pins with me. These were .262 diameter necks on these barrels, the same as I was using then. 3 barrels were brought out and they were speechless when I slipped the pins in the chambers.
1 barrel was a very tight fit with a .2620 pin, 1 was a .2625 and the last would easily accept a .2630 pin.
These were 3 identical barrels, same brand and same reamer and chambered by a top smith.
Joe

YIKES, WHODA THOUGHT JOE.....

 

[ckaberna]

Are gauge pins better than the starett “small hole gages” ? Or are they somewhat comparable?

 

[BartsBullets]

I have to agree with Dave on the part of measuring the exact diameter of the neck in the barrel. I had this discussion with a few people at the super shoot one year. I said that my reamer cut about a .0005 bigger than it said it was.
Two very well known top tier shooters started to criticize my lack of brains and my poor machining skills. I asked if they had any barrels that I could check. I just happened to have my trusty gauge pins with me. These were .262 diameter necks on these barrels, the same as I was using then. 3 barrels were brought out and they were speechless when I slipped the pins in the chambers.
1 barrel was a very tight fit with a .2620 pin, 1 was a .2625 and the last would easily accept a .2630 pin.
These were 3 identical barrels, same brand and same reamer and chambered by a top smith.
Joe

But why does it matter, other than they were different? Did they shoot? Did their brass go in the gun? Did the brass have the proper sine wave. If so it doesn’t matter.

Do you think shooters brass actually measures what they think it does? Usually not even close. All of this gets back to… the only thing that matters is how it shoots.

I’ve run over .005 clearance and the gun still shot. It’s when it’s too tight you get into trouble.

Bart

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I never dreamed no turned cases would work. I’ve turned cases for 30 + years. Thought those shooting no turned cases were clueless. Then I shot my .272 6BRA and it’s a killer. That’s what made me try it with the 6PPC. The ppc brass was a tad thicker. That’s why I went with a 273 neck instead of a 272.

Now I’ll stir the pot. Do donuts ruin accuracy? My answer…not necessarily depends on where the donut is.

Bart

100% agree and I'm right there with ya. Did side by side testing for all of 2019. My best gun was a no turn. Been no turn since. When I say no turn, I mean outta the box, no turn, too.

My post wasn't about that. I bought 1000 pieces of 220r brass recently, all same lot number. The ones I checked yesterday are thicker than my previous lots of 220r brass. That's all I'm saying.

But yeah, I'm all in on no turn and like you, I used to think...no way that'll work.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Well Bart, I am going to take this thing to the range this week end, fireform some cases, and see what it shoots like.

by my measuring, the loaded case has anywhere from no clearance to about .001 in the chamber neck by measuring around the neck of the loaded round.

I did check the size if my neck that Dusty’s piloted neck reamer cut, and it is dead on .273.

 

[BartsBullets]

100% agree and I'm right there with ya. Did side by side testing for all of 2019. My best gun was a no turn. Been no turn since. When I say no turn, I mean outta the box, no turn, too.

My post wasn't about that. I bought 1000 pieces of 220r brass recently, all same lot number. The ones I checked yesterday are thicker than my previous lots of 220r brass. That's all I'm saying.

But yeah, I'm all in on no turn and like you, I used to think...no way that'll work.

Mike I agree. The moral of the story is you have to check your brass.

 

[D Coots]

But why does it matter, other than they were different? Did they shoot? Did their brass go in the gun? Did the brass have the proper sine wave. If so it doesn’t matter.

Do you think shooters brass actually measures what they think it does? Usually not even close. All of this gets back to… the only thing that matters is how it shoots.

I’ve run over .005 clearance and the gun still shot. It’s when it’s too tight you get into trouble.

Bart

Yep, that's what I said in post #62, does it matter.

 

[BartsBullets]

Well Bart, I am going to take this thing to the range, fireform about 12 cases, and see what it shoots like.

by my measuring, the loaded case has anywhere from no clearance to about .001 in the chamber neck by measuring around the neck of the loaded round.

I did check the size if my neck that Dusty’s piloted neck reamer cut, and it is dead on .273.

I look forward to the results. Going and shooting a few pieces of brass was going to be my suggestion. Worst case scenario you can blow your brass out perfectly so you can turn it.

Bart

 

[D Coots]

To each their own.

I'm using .262 necks. I've got good straight line dies, and good reamers. I ain't changin until I get my azz handed to me regularly.

I'll be living, and probably dying with the old fashioned program for those reasons..

Later
Dave

 

[BartsBullets]

To each their own.

I'm using .262 necks. I've got good straight line dies, and good reamers. I ain't changin until I get my azz handed to me regularly.

I'll be living, and probably dying with the old fashioned program for those reasons..

Later
Dave

Define Regularly.

 

[D Coots]

Define Regularly.

We'll, I guess maybe now.......


But it ain't the size of the neck causing my azz handed to me, it's what's on top of the neck Bart.

Later
Dave

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Is there any definitive conclusion you can take from the fired brass neck measurement on guessing at the actual chamber neck diameter?
I’m guessing the brass springs back a thousandth or so smaller.

 

[BartsBullets]

We'll, I guess maybe now.......


But it ain't the size of the neck causing my azz handed to me, it's what's on top of the neck Bart.

Later
Dave

All Joking aside…the only problem with .262 neck is it has a hard time holding boattail bullets in place when you’re shooting a stiff load of 133. By the time you get loaded and to the line you’re likely to have a bunch of different seating depths. Billy switched from a .262 to the .268 way before I did. I let him shoot it for afew years. I finally switched when I was shooting the Nationals at Holton and watched a bullet come out of the case and lay on its side.

Back to joking…You are getting your ass handed to you regularly. You just ain’t paying attention.

 

[D Coots]

Ain't we all?