The ultimate solution to neck tension

[dkhunt14]

With all of these .00000s out there, it must be stated that those are in controlled climate facilities where contact is with robotics not human touch. The simple act of touching or warming the pin will change the diameter. So while you're seeing the fourth zero, it's really only true to the 3rd and probably the 2nd in all reality. Especially after running a few necks over the mandrel.

Adam

Who needs it for necks. I would use to measure diameter of bullets. Like the Redding bushings. Matt

 

[Nvreloader]

Question Guys,

Why wouldn't a RCBS bullet puller work to hold these pins,
it is a 4 slot collet to pulls into the main body, to hold tight,
and they come in numerous sizes,
and could be reamed and or polished too what ever size needed.

I know that I have squished military FMJ pulling them,
so the force should be enough to hold for expanding necks etc.

FFT,

Tia,
Don

 

[SG4247]

Question Guys,

Why wouldn't a RCBS bullet puller work to hold these pins,
it is a 4 slot collet to pulls into the main body, to hold tight,
and they come in numerous sizes,
and could be reamed and or polished too what ever size needed.

I know that I have squished military FMJ pulling them,
so the force should be enough to hold for expanding necks etc.

FFT,

Tia,
Don

Thats exactly what the Hornady bullet puller does in my preivious post. Nice thing about the Hornady tool is the adjustable cam lock handle, i can change mandrels in a snap, and control how tight they are since it is fully adjustable.

Works great on sizing neck IDs so that i get desired neck tension on the C21 Hydro press.

 

[Brians356]

If this was the case you couldn't expand and turn brass. I measure pretty carefully at 12 places after turning and can hold .0001. Matt

Wow! Hold .0001, huh? That's almost unbelievable.
-

 

[Coolhand]

Hi Brian,
I know you like to ask lots of questions and I like that because it makes me think (a dangerous thing, I know). The way the collet holds the mandrel coaxial/straight is quite simple and ingenious. Because of its shape, as I tighten the collet cap/cover, the conical shape and smoothness of the collet seems to find the center of the die effortlessly. That's really cool isn't it. Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.

Kindest regards,
Joe

Exactly .... no different to mounting a slot drill or end milling cutter into a mill using an ER Collet. Exact same principle.

Mike.

 

[Coolhand]

Mike,
I don't know you, but I'm certain that you're no idiot. Actually I'm willing to bet you're a lot smarter then your average Joe. As I stated here, I'm not the one that solved this problem, it was Kenny Porter. I just got him thinking about the issue I wanted solved and presented a couple of ways (Hornady collet and Lee Universal decapping die) to tackle it. Kenny being a master tool and die maker was the one that saw where I was coming from and made the leap to precision tools he uses. The credit belongs to Kenny not me. I just happened to help him focus on my problem. But I do share in your excitement.




WOW, I had been thinking about finding a way to measure circumferences with precision but I have never heard of a plug gauge ring. I suspected that a professional had already solved it, but didn't know where to start. See, you've already repaid me.

What a great forum where we can all share and help each other out.

Kindest regards,

Joe

Joe , then all credit to Kenny and to you for poking him to make the 'leap'. As far as ring gauges go Joe, they may be a useful addition to super extreme hand loading practices for BR, I just don't think the expense is warranted for my .308 Palma ammo. Bad wind calls usually negate all the 'extra' tweaks one can perform to improve ammunition.
I would suggest that two ring gauges would be required, a go and no go and a lot of test measuring of neck O.D's to determine what ring gauge I.D's are required. Talk to Kenny, I bet he could knock something out that would come pretty bloody close to what is required without the need for test certificates and the high purchase price of industry standard gauges.

regards
Mike.

 

[Brians356]

Exactly .... no different to mounting a slot drill or end milling cutter into a mill using an ER Collet. Exact same principle.

Mike.

Thanks, Mike, but ... that's not what I asked about. ;-(

Feel free to review my actual question (asked twice) and come back, as I still want to know the answer.
-

 

[markgrabowski]

You guys make this way too hard.

Hornady bullet puller with the cam over handle that pulls the collet in. My collet is for a .270 Remington and fits all my .241" (6mm) and .261"(6.5mm) pin gauges in that range.

Bought the Hornady cam lock collet bullet puller #050095 with collet for like $35.00.

Curious if you've measured your case runout after using this method?

 

[Coolhand]

What centers the case on the mandrel+collet+die body? Does the case try to self-center on the mandrel, like with a Sinclair expander die?
-

Brian, the Sinclair and Porter/Joe die are fundamentally the same, both have a mandrel and die body, stating the obvious I know, therefore it follows that the Porter/Joe Die functions the same as the Sinclair, the entered case has no option but to centre on the mandrel. A question that springs to mind with both of these arrangements, " how important is the quality/precision of the shell holder that introduces the case into the die ?" Or am I grasping at straws ?
I ask simply as I have some shell holders here that are from reputable companies that are very agricultural and have been put into the ' only to be used in an emergency bin .'

regards
Mike.

 

[ab_bentley]

Got mine started, using ER11 collets. Got to thread the top and bore the counter/ angle in the top.

Adam

 

[kountryboy2]

Wow! Hold .0001, huh? That's almost unbelievable.
-

When I seen that post,I had too move on. I use a grinder and work in .0001 daily,but it's not with a mic or even a indicating mic.

 

[SG4247]

Curious if you've measured your case runout after using this method?

Absolutely, use the C21 runout gauge 100% on all loaded rounds, and then sort my loads by runout best to worst in the ammo box.

Runout using a pin gauge in the Hornady cam lock bullet puller - is no worse than either the C21 or Sinclair neck expander mandrel dies. Bonus is that I buy the desired pin gauge "mandrel" in +/- .0005" sizes off eBay for like $6.00

 

[markgrabowski]

Absolutely, use the C21 runout gauge 100% on all loaded rounds, and then sort my loads by runout best to worst in the ammo box.

What kind of runout #'s are you getting?

 

[SG4247]

What kind of runout #'s are you getting?

The brass will generally have some runout (depending on its firing count, neck sizings and anneal etc..) before it reaches this later point in the sizing process. Since I have an o-ring under the Hornady bullet puller locking ring, the gauge pin "mandrel" floats some while sizing neck IDs in my massive big max press. I rarely see any increase in runout due to this single operation.

 

[Brians356]

Brian, the Sinclair and Porter/Joe die are fundamentally the same, both have a mandrel and die body, stating the obvious I know, therefore it follows that the Porter/Joe Die functions the same as the Sinclair, the entered case has no option but to centre on the mandrel. A question that springs to mind with both of these arrangements, " how important is the quality/precision of the shell holder that introduces the case into the die ?" Or am I grasping at straws ?

No, you're not grasping at straws. But how perfect can a shell holder ever be? With the case rattling around (relatively speaking) in an ordinary shell holder (even a perfectly square one), expecting the case to self-center perfectly on the mandrel is somewhat optimistic. Once the mandrel starts to force itself into the case mouth, the case can be pinned by friction against the shell holder ever so slightly tilted WRT the axis of the mandrel. It's just possible a floating mandrel (ala Sinclair Gen II) is better in that scenario. I assume that's why Sinclair employ it.

It seems something like a Redding-style case guide sleeve, or a two-piece Wilson style inline die, to feed the case to the mandrel might be the answer.
-

 

[Coolhand]

No, you're not grasping at straws. But how perfect can a shell holder ever be? With the case rattling around (relatively speaking) in an ordinary shell holder (even a perfectly square one), expecting the case to self-center perfectly on the mandrel is somewhat optimistic. Once the mandrel starts to force itself into the case mouth, the case can be pinned by friction against the shell holder ever so slightly tilted WRT the axis of the mandrel. It's just possible a floating mandrel (ala Sinclair Gen II) is better in that scenario. I assume that's why Sinclair employ it.

It seems something like a Redding-style case guide sleeve, or a two-piece Wilson style inline die, to feed the case to the mandrel might be the answer.
-

Brian , I have been known to drive Gun Store employees batty by going through their supply of shell holders, looking for ones that have less ' rattle .'

regards
Mike.