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The sweet spot for 223 cartridge and bullet weight?

rookie7

Good morning,

I've searched the net for information on this, but nothing substantial. So, I trust the knowledge bank here and would like an education please.

I have a 26", mtu contour, 223 wylde, 7 twist barrel. I'm researching to learn what is the "sweet spot" window of bullet weight for the case capacity - then I will try to purchase what is ideal and in this current environment buy what I can find.

My question is: based on the design of the regular 223 Remington case what is the ideal bullet weight in relation to case capacity?

Since bullet tech has changed and improved so much and we have a lot of choices. Example: the 95 smk? Is it really too much for the case capacity to push it fast enough?

On hand I have 69gr TMK, 75 eldm, and 80 eldm. I only have enough of the 75 and 80 for just minimal load development and I'm out. I have found some 88 gr eldm to purchase, but if the 223 doesn't have enough power to push it fast enough there is no need for me to purchase.

Thank you
 
My Son uses the 88 ELDs with a 7 twist barrel using Varget. It does verry well at our local 1000 yard steel plate matches. We recently took a few guns to Thunder Valley Precision and surprisingly he was able to make pretty consistent hits on the 18 inch target at one mile.

Even with a 12 to 15 mph crosswind 3 of us put 8 for 15 shots on it. Roughly 148 feet of drop and 42 feet of wind hold but those 88s really performed well. Out to 1000 yards his settings were really close to my 6XC.

Topstrap
 
From my experience, there isn't one bullet or even a small range of bullet weights that's ideal for the 223.

You want to start with what you want to do with the bullet - i.e., range, accuracy - then choose a bullet to fit that application. You can, then, choose the barrel twist and powder that would work best for that bullet. With help from people on this forum, you can also choose a chamber that would optimize the results.

I've seen 223 bullets perform very well in specific applications from 50gr to 95gr.
 
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For a long range .223 I think those 75-80grn weight is a good range. Yeah you can go heavier but it adds in more issues like oal etc. Kind of like people who use 200+ grn bullets in the .308. They are more for a specific use than a good overall. I also use mine in PRS Tac class so 77grn is max weight so the 75 ELD does great. Mine is 27” 7 twist with .223 Wylde chamber also.
 
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rookie7 said:
My question is: based on the design of the regular 223 Remington case what is the ideal bullet weight in relation to case capacity?
Click to expand...
I shoot a lot of 223 Rem with rifles with twist rates ranging from 8 - 9 - 12" twists but no 7".

What I found is that the twist rates dictates the "idea" bullet weight for my given rifles. For example, my 12" twist rifles shoot the 50 and 55 grain bullets exceptionally well. The 9" twist does better with the 55 grain bullets in my rifle. The 8" twist Tikka excel the the 60 grain flat base Vmax bullets.

I haven't tried anything heavier nor did I intend to because my purpose is hunting not target shooting and given the limitations of my scopes, I have to use "hold over" on shots beyond about 225 yards on varmints. Therefore a "rainbow" trajectory with heavier bullets won't work for me since I don't have a scope with reliable adjustment turrets.

The 55's will shoot ok in my 8" twist Tikka's if I drop the powder charge and velocity down to about 2,900 f/s.
 
I have/had about a dozen 223 rifles in the last 20 years and am always tinkering with them.

Probably the most accurate bullets I have ever shot is the 50-53 grain match variants but they don't shoot very well in the wind.
Here is a recent 300 yard example of the Nosler 52 BTHP out of my 8 twist Bartlein barreled rifle at 300 yards. The dark spot, on the head of the silhouette, is a 3-shot group that my son recently shot in almost zero wind conditions
Screenshot_20210418-091132_Drive.jpg

The 77 SMK and 75 Amax will do well in a lot of rifles with a 1:8 or faster twist. The Amax has been replaced with the ELD. That seems to be about the best "all around" bullet weight for BC/velocity.

I've done some testing with the 88 ELD but never finished. Accuracy hovered around .7" at 100. For that kind of money, I just shoot 105's in my 6BR, get better accuracy and BC for about the same price.
 
The throat in your chamber could put you on track. If you have a .050 throat 62-77. .090 for 80s, .170 or longer gives you room for powder with 90gr.
 
In my hands, there doesn't seem to be an optimal bullet weight with respect to cartridge volume in the .223 Rem, per se. Typically those preferring to load the "heavies" will have a much longer freebore in their chambers and single feed loaded rounds. If there is a difference with respect to bullet weight in that context, I can't shoot it. Bullet design and powder choice are probably the much more important variables. Your setup (i.e. barrel length/twist rate) should work for anything up to the 90s with the caveat of freebore length. Your Wylde chamber should have a little over .060" freebore, which is quite short for loading the longer/heavier bullets. You can certainly do it, but it will likely limit the velocity/pressure attainable due to the long bullet shank being seated well below the neck/shoulder. All that really means is that you may need to use a slightly slower velocity/accuracy node when tuning the load.

The 88 ELDM has a very long bearing surface. In my estimation, a freebore of around .250"-ish would be "optimal" for the 88s, which is about 0.190" more than your setup has. Again, that doesn't mean you couldn't use them, your twist rate and barrel length would work just fine. However, you'd have a significant amount of bullet shank below the neck/shoulder junction, which would occupy some of the usable case volume and increase pressure for a given charge weight over a shorter/lighter bullet. In that event, just be sure to start low and work up incrementally, accepting the fact that you may not be able to push the really long heavy bullets all that fast. One thing to consider is that it is only rarely possible to push a lighter/shorter/lower BC bullet fast enough to overcome the BC deficit without encountering MAX pressure limits. The heavier/higher BC bullet will usually win out in terms of wind deflection, even though it has the [much] slower muzzle velocity. So velocity isn't necessarily everything.

With your chamber, I'd be thinking more along the lines of the 70-80 gr weight range. Berger has some great offerings in that window, as do Sierra and Hornady. First and foremost, I'd be thinking about availability of bullets within that weight/length window, and of course, which of the choices tuned in with the best accuracy/precision. It sounds like you already have a few options you can test, but there are quite a few more choices out there, if you can find them in stock at some point.
 
75 or 80 ELD should work fine. Like others have said, the awarded chamber or 0.060" freebore is a little short for the 88 and 90 gainers.

The 80 ELD is an awesome bullet for .223. I don't have much experience with the 75's, but I have no doubt it'd be a good option for 600 yards and in as well.
 
jrh84 said:
75 or 80 ELD should work fine. Like others have said, the awarded chamber or 0.060" freebore is a little short for the 88 and 90 gainers.

The 80 ELD is an awesome bullet for .223. I don't have much experience with the 75's, but I have no doubt it'd be a good option for 600 yards and in as well.
Click to expand...

75 ELDs will do well past 600. I have shot them to 1150 in matches. BCs are pretty close in the 75s and 80s so using either will work as long as rules don't limit you.
 
Thanks to everyone for your input. I have ordered 200 of the 88s because they are all I could find.

To get more horsepower my only option would to be rechamber to 223 AI?

I’ve read (and maybe it was wrong info) the Valkyrie doesn’t have any advantage over the 223 or 233AI in a bolt gun.
 
There is about a 2 to 3 grain difference between 223 and 223AI depending on the brass and the bullet being used.

223 ~ 30.0gr H2O
223AI ~ 32.5gr H2O
224 Valk ~ 34.5gr H2O

223AI is more energy than 223, but not like the step change from jumping to a 6mm.

The Valkyrie was intended to compete with the 22 Nosler and those are both about 1500 - 1600 Ft*Lbs.

(The 22 WSSM takes all that up a notch in energy and runs about 53gr H2O and runs about 1700 - 1900 Ft*Lbs. The 22 Creedmoor is similar with about 52gr H2O.)

The fireforming work for an AI is a consideration. Then there is also the bolt face consideration as well.

Since you have already found some 88s, why not just shoot them as is?

Are you shooting F-TR? Then I would stay with 223 since anything else puts you in F-Open where they will pit you against the other calibers where you would be at a disadvantage.

I see you are in Georgia which isn't very high altitude with respect to twist rate.
My advice would be... when things ease up, I would try some SMK 80 and TMK 77 in your 7 twist.
 
I am no hoarder, but have a wide variety of .224 bullets from chasing accuracy.
The 88’s, 200 is a good amount for the time being. You should be able to sort out if it likes them or not in short order.
Buddy tried some that another gent with the same set up said they worked excellent in his. Well it didn’t work out and his gun for what ever reason prefers 69’s..........not a preferred weight for 800 and beyond.
I admit to being a 223 fan. However I stepped into the 22BR puddle. Accuracy, speed ease of tuning all seemed to come way easier,faster with way less frustration.
Ordered a new 22BR barrel, zero free bore, with intentions of wearing it out with 40-55 grain bullets shot at 100-200.
Have thoughts on a fast twist 22BR. Then come to my senses as my available shooting distance any more is limited to 200ish.
 
80vld is the “easy botton”,
they do it all inside of 600yds for punching paper.
Mag load or single feed?
 
I have numerous .223's (and have had others) in twists from 1-14" to 1-7" and have shot a tremendous number of bullets in weights from 32 grain to 80 grains. If I had to choose a few twists, mated to a few bullets, to attempt the most accurate load, it would be approx. 1-12" Tw. with a 50 to 52 grain bullet. Heavier twists are required to spin heavier bullets, though heavier bullets almost never provide the same level of accuracy. With a 1-7" twist, I'd want to shoot 69 to 73 grain bullets- so the first couple bullets you mentioned could do very well. You didn't mention what you wanted the load to do. If shooting as far as you can - you may do well with the heavier bullets you just acquired. If you are plinking and doing a lot of informal shooting within 200 to 500 yards, you might be well served with much lighter bullets - like 55 grain. While your twist is faster than needed for 55's, they will often shoot very well out of a 1-7". They tend to cost a lot less - are many more options available - and likely more readily available. I have bought many "bargain basement" 55 grain varmint bullets that shot better our of my 1-7's than very expensive heavier match bullets.
 
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