The Rule Book Is Your Friend

[chkunz]

When I first began shooting XTC as a marksman in one of my first matches there was an issue with my target during a rapid fire stage. The match official made a ruling which somehow did not seem fair but I did not know the rule so I accepted and the match went on. Later I took a look at the rule book and learned that the ruling was not correct and cost me points. Suddenly I became interested in the rule book.

There is a reply in another thread on this forum where the writer relates a match experience where his rapid fire target came up with 9/yes on the score board, nine visible hits, all in the nine and ten ring. The score keeper claimed he had fired ten shots but thought he saw a bullet blow up on the way to the target. Also the target puller claimed that he observed the target during the string and saw only nine hits go in so the shooter got the score of the nine hits. This is a good example of where the shooter looses points because he did not know the rules. The rule book does not refer to the puller observing the hits on the target to verify the number of hits during the string and it does not refer to the score keeper or anyone else observing bullet blow ups as being relevant. In this case the shooter has the option to accept the score or refire. If he chooses to refire, the obvious choice, the nine hits are entered on the front of the score card. The refire string is entered on the back of the score card and the lowest value hit is transferred to the front of the score card to complete the string for record. This is a significantly different outcome than accepting the nine hits.

There are hundreds or even thousands of different situations that may require interpretations of the rules and no one person can remember them all. But everyone can become familiar with the rule book and learn how to look up any particular situation as it arises.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Had this happen and knew the rules. I kept demanding that the match official show me any rule reference to counting impacts in the target whereas the scorer counted ten.

Finally, FINALLY, got the refire.

Got to know the rules and demand the rule presented to your that disallows the outcome (against your understanding).

 

[Immike]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

 

[Albany Mountain]

This rule pertained to is for rapid fire shooting in XTC. Not aware of F-class rules. Point is to get a rule book, read it and prepare for the moment.

 

[chkunz]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

The example I used was for XTC in a rapid fire stage. My point was it is important to know the rules to avoid loosing points when someone else does not apply the rules correctly. In prone slow fire F Class or sling things are much simpler. You only shoot one shot at a time and when you fire the shot it must be scored, if the target does not go down for what ever the reason the score keeper must call for a mark before you fire another shot. If you did not get a hit on the target for what ever reason the pit will not find a bullet hole and should score it a miss. At that point the rules say you may challenge and get another look by the pit boss or you can accept the miss. There are many issues that can come up but it is important to know the rules and insure that you receive the correct judgment by the rules. Also the score keeper has an important job to pay attention at all times. In rapid fire the score keeper must watch the shooter and count his shots, not looking down range for bullet blow ups. Slow fire is easier but it is still important for the score keeper to do his job, for example, if your target goes down but you did not shoot, it is important for the score keeper to know that you did not shoot and if the target come up with a hit it is not your shot. Respectively, Clyde the elder.

 

[Gundog64]

TRex,
In the case you explained above two things jump out at me. If I were the line official at that match I would have explained to the shooter what the rules were and let him know what a mistake it is to not know them himself. He, by the rules, is fully entitled to a refire regardless of how many impacts the target puller saw.
Second but the largest mistake I see here is, how did the scorer see a bullet blow up? He was looking through his spotting scope when he is supposed to be watching the shooter fire his shots. I would have chewed his ass for being on the scope. When I score a rapid fire string I count the brass as they eject and count them on my fingers. May sound stupid for doing the counting on my fingers but it removes all doubt.

John

 

[Gundog64]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

Sorry for being a jerk but your asking a question about the match rules in a thread pointing out the importance of knowing the match rules.

 

[chkunz]

TRex,
In the case you explained above two things jump out at me. If I were the line official at that match I would have explained to the shooter what the rules were and let him know what a mistake it is to not know them himself. He, by the rules, is fully entitled to a refire regardless of how many impacts the target puller saw.
Second but the largest mistake I see here is, how did the scorer see a bullet blow up? He was looking through his spotting scope when he is supposed to be watching the shooter fire his shots. I would have chewed his *** for being on the scope. When I score a rapid fire string I count the brass as they eject and count them on my fingers. May sound stupid for doing the counting on my fingers but it removes all doubt.

John

John, your points are both well made, thanks. However many match officials do not know the rules very well. They are volunteers and many are trying to do a good job but have not yet had the experience to know the proper procedure. XTC rules get somewhat complicated at times and especially during rapid fire. Many times there is not an experienced pit boss to help in the pits so folks do what seems reasonable to them at the time but may not be consistent with the rules. The theme of this thread is that the more you know the rules the better prepared you will be when there are circumstances during the conduct of the match where you stand to loose points because the match officials and others do not know the rules. Thanks again for your response.

 

[Immike]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

Sorry for being a jerk but your asking a question about the match rules in a thread pointing out the importance of knowing the match rules.

Thanks for bringing that out into the light. I am normally more carefull with my posts, but I made a mistake this time. I do study the rules rather carefully and got excited during a fatigue that something was overlooked. My apologies .

 

[chkunz]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

Sorry for being a jerk but your asking a question about the match rules in a thread pointing out the importance of knowing the match rules.

Gundog64, I am ok with the question since Immike is asking a ligimidate rules question that is promted by this thread; it is an opportunity for folks to learn. Yes the theme of this thread is the importance of learning the rules but some examples of how not following the rules causes problems or asking for clarification of a rule is ok with me. We just need to be careful that our answers on rules questions are correct and based on the rule book, myself included. Thanks for your reply.

 

[chkunz]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

Sorry for being a jerk but your asking a question about the match rules in a thread pointing out the importance of knowing the match rules.

Thanks for bringing that out into the light. I am normally more carefull with my posts, but I made a mistake this time. I do study the rules rather carefully and got excited during a fatigue that something was overlooked. My apologies .

All is well.

 

[Immike]

Wow, this is good info mr TREX. , I lost range record over a blow up... Maybe , but had I know this I might not had. Thanks man , great post!!

My question is , how would this work in a Fclass/sling 15-20 shot string?

Sorry for being a jerk but your asking a question about the match rules in a thread pointing out the importance of knowing the match rules.

Thanks for bringing that out into the light. I am normally more carefull with my posts, but I made a mistake this time. I do study the rules rather carefully and got excited during a fatigue that something was overlooked. My apologies .

All is well.

Your a good man Clyde Kunz. These things that bite a guy during competition are bitter defeats that can be avoided with knowledge. Thank you sir. I always look forward to your posts.