The history of the M16

[Klink]

My friend linked this article to me on this history of the m16 and I thought you guys would be interested in it

 

[jonbearman]

Nice little article. Isnt it funny how politics finds its way into everything including small arms design and decision making. McNamara was a bull headed ass in my opinion. I was friends with a guy who was a small weapons mechanic in Vietnam and he worked on retrofitting all those rifles with chrome chambers and issuing cleaning kits. He also was an instructor as well as a grunt. He handed out cleaning kits like Kleenex. The AR-15 is his all time favorite weapon. He groused about the M-14 due to its characteristic of being uncontrollable in full auto position. He loves the M-16 because it was very controllable in full auto and I have shot a lot of machine guns at different machine gun shoots, the M-16 is my favorite besides the Berretta M38 sub-gun which is 9mm with a low cyclic rate which is a good back up in cq combat.

 

[shoot4fun]

About twenty years ago I owned a very well maintained Colt AR-15 Model 614. It was the old triangle fore end and had the FA position that was lots of fun. I could switch out to a 14.5" 5.56 or a 9" 9mm is seconds. Only trouble with owning FA weapons was it drew such a crowd at the range I never got to shoot much. I really do miss the days spent competing at Knob Creek.

 

[nmkid]

McNamara was a bull headed ass in my opinion

NO!! He was a SOB!!

 

[jonbearman]

The only thing about McNamara that was good was nothing.LOL He was an A-type personality and an egomaniac micromanaging jerk.

 

[Jammer Six]

I bought and read both The Black Rifle and the follow-up book that came out twenty years later.

It's an interesting story that can be viewed both ways. You can read through it thinking "what a moron!" and your opinion will be correct. You can also start with the idea that these were good men, doing the best they could with the information they had at the time, with infantrymen under them at war, and everything will support that theory, too.

P.S. the follow up book was written by a man dim enough to publish a book about ARs for the gun community, and to place a picture of himself in it with his finger on the trigger.

P.P.S. I am biased. I am one of the people who was issued an A1, and it jammed. I will never own an AR, but my lovely, ("anti"-gun) wife is threatening to buy one.

 

[Rust]

The primary problem with the M-16 and all subsequent iterations is despite proper initial development, finalization of shipped product was always steered by those far less qualified to make decisions. Gee, it really doesn't need chrome lining, it's easier to load ammo with a dirty fouling powder rather than the original specification powder, it doesn't need a cleaning kit, the M-855/SS109 ammo will work great in the short barrel M-4, the short barrel M-4 is the ideal rifle for long range desert or mountain use, take your pick.

 

[DaveTooley]

I was fortunate enough to go through Reed Knights firearms museum at his manufacturing facility in Titusville. Incredible doesn't describe it. He has the definitive collection of AR's, prototypes, and a special section devoted to Gene Stoner. Reed and Larry Vickers and maybe others collaborated assembling an incredible book that documents the history of the AR with fantastic pictures. Unique never seen models, milestone serial numbers, it's all there. As someone who used the A1 and can now look back after the passage of time from a different perspective, it's just an amazing part of history for anyone who has served.

This isn't a plug for Larry's book but if your interested in the history of the AR take a look.

https://www.vickersguide.com/

 

[Gappmast]

Remember McNamara worked for Ford. He thought everybody should drive simple cars like the Ford Falcon. He liked the 5.56 over the 7.62 or 30-06 because the ammunition was cheaper. He was in the wrong job

 

[JRS]

There is a lengthy and very interesting article at globalsecurity.org

 

[pacificman]

All I know is that when I was in the Marine Corp. we were issued the M-14 which was awesome
then went to the M-16 which no matter how much you cleaned that thing it would jam!
I never did like that thing! Glad to know now that there were many improvements to the rifle
to make it reliable. Also good to know our guys have some very reliable weapons today.

 

[johara1]

First when we tested the M16 and the Stoner, the stoner was superior being able to change barrels from the rifle to the machine gun and rifle to rifle. Pressure to get colt the contract was from the rats in DC. $$$$ talks and BS. walks. Lack of recoil and weight was a factor for the .223 over the 308, they knew that wimps could carry more rounds and a lighter gun and less recoil then spray and pray........ jim

 

[johara1]

In testing a M14 at full auto at 300 yds 3 hits on a 6x6' target frame and the Stoner 20 hits M16 never ran a full mag. it would jam. BTW Hathcock was doing some of the testing and i sat on his back with the 14 and it still only got 3 hits......... jim

 

[jonbearman]

@ major problems early on that the DOD did with our beloved at-15/16. They opted not to chrome the barrels or the bore of the carrier and the key. It was cost savings as I recollect. Just like today, put a bean counter on the job and the product goes to hell in a hand basket. Now the airforce early on had M16's called XM-16's and they chrome bore and chamber, a chrome carrier along with the key and bolt. Through testing they did it with out a lot of problems, the chrome and new cleaning procedures worked and the problems were short lived. In the end the gun was widely accepted and the M-14 which was heavy and bulky was used for special purposes. The AR is king to a point. The dumbest thing the dodo ever did was not chrome the barrel in a wet jungle situation. I once had an sks and it wasn't chromed and I shot it one day with Winchester ammo. It was a humid day, so I opted to clean it the next day. The op rod seized up and the chamber was rusted lightly in one freaking day. So in the end the damn bean counters trying to save pennies undermined the M-16 from the start. It was politics as usual putting their noses into something they knew nothing about. Now the AR-15/16 is the most popular beloved rifle around. Stoner was a genius.

 

[JRS]

@ major problems early on that the DOD did with our beloved at-15/16. They opted not to chrome the barrels or the bore of the carrier and the key. It was cost savings as I recollect. Just like today, put a bean counter on the job and the product goes to hell in a hand basket. Now the airforce early on had M16's called XM-16's and they chrome bore and chamber, a chrome carrier along with the key and bolt. Through testing they did it with out a lot of problems, the chrome and new cleaning procedures worked and the problems were short lived. In the end the gun was widely accepted and the M-14 which was heavy and bulky was used for special purposes. The AR is king to a point. The dumbest thing the dodo ever did was not chrome the barrel in a wet jungle situation. I once had an sks and it wasn't chromed and I shot it one day with Winchester ammo. It was a humid day, so I opted to clean it the next day. The op rod seized up and the chamber was rusted lightly in one freaking day. So in the end the damn bean counters trying to save pennies undermined the M-16 from the start. It was politics as usual putting their noses into something they knew nothing about. Now the AR-15/16 is the most popular beloved rifle around. Stoner was a genius.

You need to get over the myths about chrome lined barrels and carriers solving the problem, Jon. Look at the ammo used during the testing and evaluation process, then the actual ammo that was produced for use. Add to that the lack of training and proper equipment for cleaning.

 

[johara1]

You need to get over the myths about chrome lined barrels and carriers being the problem, Jon. Look at the ammo used during the testing and evaluation process, then the actual ammo that was produced for use. Add to that the lack of training and proper equipment for cleaning.

Funny the Stoner spit them out without an issue....... jim

 

[johara1]

@ major problems early on that the DOD did with our beloved at-15/16. They opted not to chrome the barrels or the bore of the carrier and the key. It was cost savings as I recollect. Just like today, put a bean counter on the job and the product goes to hell in a hand basket. Now the airforce early on had M16's called XM-16's and they chrome bore and chamber, a chrome carrier along with the key and bolt. Through testing they did it with out a lot of problems, the chrome and new cleaning procedures worked and the problems were short lived. In the end the gun was widely accepted and the M-14 which was heavy and bulky was used for special purposes. The AR is king to a point. The dumbest thing the dodo ever did was not chrome the barrel in a wet jungle situation. I once had an sks and it wasn't chromed and I shot it one day with Winchester ammo. It was a humid day, so I opted to clean it the next day. The op rod seized up and the chamber was rusted lightly in one freaking day. So in the end the damn bean counters trying to save pennies undermined the M-16 from the start. It was politics as usual putting their noses into something they knew nothing about. Now the AR-15/16 is the most popular beloved rifle around. Stoner was a genius.

I would guess you would have to see who got greased not what worked ............ jim

 

[JRS]

Funny the Stoner spit them out without an issue....... jim

Gene Stoner testified at the congressional hearings and explained the failure to extract was due entirely to the use of Ball powder and the cyclic rate. The original testing, (no chrome lined barrels and carriers) which passed with flying colors, was conducted using IMR stick powder. Stoner was able to prove the ammunition and original rifle design combination was totally reliable while using the stick powder it was tested with. With the relationship that Olin and the DOD shared, a decision was made to manufacture the ammunition with Olin Ball powder. That Ball powder and rate of fire created massive amounts of carbon buildup.

 

[johara1]

Again i best somebody got $$$ for that decision..... jim

 

[JRS]

Again i best somebody got $$$ for that decision..... jim

Big $$$$$ was made, Mr. Ohara.