The good & the bad reloading 45 ACP brass question

[AckleymanII]

Loading for a 45 ACP is more complicated than a 1000 yd rifle.

Taper Crimp is critical, OAL will determine what crimp you have.

AA#5 is your friend.

Due to brass thickness, choose a brand, throw the rest in the trash. FAST!

After being a benchrest shooter and trying to tweek a custom 45, pass the ZaneX!

 

[joshb]

Like turning a race horse into a plow horse.

 

[Gary Wiant]

Ok thanks to everyone for their responses. My 1911 & my daughter's boyfriends 1911 will be used a lot for woods / adventure walks so distances anywhere from 20 - 100 yards. Now I'm considering just getting all new brass ( probably Hornady) I'm not exactly sure what projectiles I'll be using but I know it will be something from Acme bullets & will have Hi-tech coating. I load my 357 with bullseye so I'd like to find a load with it. I will either be using Lee or Dillon dies.

Thanks again keep the information coming

 

[dryhumor]

BE-86 with 200gr Berry’s HP and Hornady XTPs. 6.2 grains is working well. I wipe cases with alcohol and load, then shoot. Mixed headstamp for practice ammo.

Place a light where you can see the powder levels in the cases when you load. Or inspect before bullet seating.

 

[243winxb]

Now I'm considering just getting all new brass

Great idea. Starline makes 2- 45 acp brass types. . Loading hot? Buy the +P .

45 ACP+P, 45 Automatic+P
0.892 - 0.897 O.A.L.
The 45 Auto+P is a strengthened version of the 45 Auto with the same external dimensions. A thicker web and heavier sidewall at base strengthens the case in potentially unsupported areas. This case has approximately 2 grains less internal water capacity than the standard 45 Auto.

 

[alb]

Here's my helpful tip then; get a box of factory 230gr ball. Measure the COL; it's probably going to be right around the 1.255 - 1.260 mark. That'll typically feed reliably in anything you put it into; target that COL. Unfortunately, there are some reloading manuals that have some absurdly short COLs, resulting in questions as to why your 1911 is a jam-o-matic.

When in doubt, if it looks like a factory round, it'll probably feed.

 

[AckleymanII]

1.260 does not work well in my Barstow barrel, too long. Also, too long in my Kahr CW 45.

Take the barrel off and use the chamber in your gun as a Max OAL guide. Guns may have different OAL's, some short, some long.

Dillon case guage did not work for me on OAL in some guns, but did help in sorting out brass that had been fired in large chambers with huge web dia.

True match guns may have .001 smaller chamber which means that you need a smaller taper crimp die. IN small match chambers, cast bullets may "normalize" swelling out causing "fail to feed" issues, and with thick wall thickness brands of brass, this issues is worse.

 

[hoz53]

I am going to be picking up my first 1911 - in 45 ACP and I typically reload for all my firearms so I wanted to get a head start on some brass & my daughter's boyfriend & i split 1000 once fired brass (mixed headstamp) and we sorted them out last night. We got more Winchester & Blazer then S&B, Federal & F C. As well as a few of other head stamps but these were the head stamps with enough to load with.

My question is will I have issues reloading any of these brass?

Does sorting pistol brass by headstamp make as much difference as it does in rifle reloading?

I notice mainly on some of the Blazer brass looks like it is either small pistol primers or they are military primers?
Thanks in advance
Gary

all my brass is fairly old and mixed head stamp and mixed brass and nickle, of coarse large primer. im sure its all some form of win, rem or federal. i always had good feeding and decent accuracy. i never trimmed it either- 45 acp brass doesnt grow much if at all. Your factory gun will be less picky feeding than a custom gun. I polished the loading ramp on mine and they would Feed H&G 68 (200 semi wadcutters ) well. i have had to change recoil springs to get 1911s to feed at times. I just set my seating die to straiten out the bell and never had a problem with bullets moving. Take the barrel out of the gun and drop a loaded round in it. rear of case head should line up with rear of barrel hood and it should drop in easy. If not crimp a little more. The thing about a semiauto is you always lose some brass so that is why i never purchased a bunch of new or one kind and paid more. I never shot bullseye either. i wouldnt spend the time loading different primer sizes id stick with one size but thats just me. Oh and i wouldnt use bullseye either. 231 for target loads and unique for heavy loads (mabie 296) brands me as a codger. I have purchased some of the VV pistol powders to try after hearing good reports. Ive got alot of cast bullets i need to shoot up. thanks for reminding me.

 

[Gary Wiant]

Hoz53 - what's the issue with Bullseye? It shoots very well out of my .357 mag. Encore. I do shoot 231 out of my M&P Pro 9mm it's not as accurate as the .357 but it also isn't a 13" Match grade barrel so it's not a fair comparison.

 

[centershot]

I like the reduced recoil of the 185gr. I wish they made fmj in 200gr.

 

[Lefty Trigger]

I shoot a lot of 45 and load a lot as well. I pick up and use all my brass even the small primer brass. Match up your headstamps if shooting competition other than it don't matter they all shoot. Save your small primer brass for use at ranges that don't allow you to pick up your brass. Don't throw any of it out, get you a bucket and keep all your scrap brass. Here in Ohio a 5 gallon bucket of brass is worth $90 and that buys bullets!

 

[cdhbrad]

Ok thanks to everyone for their responses. My 1911 & my daughter's boyfriends 1911 will be used a lot for woods / adventure walks so distances anywhere from 20 - 100 yards. Now I'm considering just getting all new brass ( probably Hornady) I'm not exactly sure what projectiles I'll be using but I know it will be something from Acme bullets & will have Hi-tech coating. I load my 357 with bullseye so I'd like to find a load with it. I will either be using Lee or Dillon dies.

Gary: I load .45ACP for 7 pistols: 6 are 1911s ranging from a Clark Hardball built in 1962 on a late '50s Colt Govt. to a Bunker Arms full custom build in 2016, and a CZ 97BE Custom built for me in 2014. All 7 shoot the same ammo and all is either based on a 200gr or 185gr SWC Hi-Tek coated bullet. I have used them from Falcon, Blue Bullets, Missouri Bullets, Bayou, and, currently, the Acme "No Lube Groove versions. Ideally, I would tune a round for each pistol, just like we do for our rifles, but that isn't practical. You are loading for at least two different 1911s so, like me, you need to find a round that will function reliably in both.
The function of any loaded round in your 1911s will, to some extent, be dependent on the weight of the mainspring and recoil springs in the guns. Mine are all fitted with a 19# mainspring and 16# recoil spring and I use Wolff springs in all my guns. The CZ is set with light springs too. Some factory guns will come with 23# mainsprings and 18 - 18.5# recoil springs and this may affect functioning, but springs are cheap and easy to change.
You mention using Bullseye powder, it is very accurate in .45ACPs and one of my favorites. That, along with VVN310, are the two primary powders I use for .45ACP. I have loaded and shot many pounds of each and at the 4.0gr. load I use (approx. 1750 rounds/ pound) that's a lot of rounds. I use random, range pickup brass......anything that isn't split, steel, or aluminum case, gets cleaned and loaded. I don't presort between large and small primers. If I get a small primer when I go to load, I just put it aside and save it to use when I am going to an outdoor training session where I may not find all my brass. It all works for me. You mention shooting in the woods.....a 1911 will throw brass 8-10 feet, to the right and behind the shooter if properly tuned, and you will loose a lot of brass unless shooting in a fairly open area and, for that reason, I would seriously consider buying "once fired" brass for your purposes.
I use Redding Competition Die sets for all my pistol reloading. Seating and crimping are done on separate stations. Some have recommended you buy a case gauge and, while it will work, the true test is the barrels of the guns you are loading for. The rounds I load run in all 7 of my guns and you need to find a load, both in power and dimensionally, that will work in the guns you are loading for unless you decide to load for each gun separately.
You will see a lot of comments about OAL of the round being important and, to an extent it is. However, with the SWC bullets you want to use, what is more important is the length from the base of the case to the exposed shoulder of the bullet as that length really determines whether the pistol will go into battery when the round is cycled. I find that a measurement of between .940-.950 works in all my guns. I see slight differences because of the differences in thickness of the base of the cases. For crimp, mine run between .469-.470, with slight variances due to different case thickness at the mouth. Here is a photo of an Acme 185gr SWC to illustrate the measurement. A Test Target from my Bunker Arms Custom is also attached showing that my loads are pretty decent at 25 yards. This was some of my older ammo (pre Hi-Tek) that I gave to Brandan when he needed to function test my gun and it was shot after about 40 rounds had gone through the gun. My reloads are all this gun has shot so, while you may read about 1911s needing a 500 round break-in with 230gr hardball rounds, that just isn't true.
Also, before you load any live rounds, I would suggest you load some "Dummy" rounds with no primer or powder and hand cycle them through the guns. If you have tested them in the barrels, they should feed from the mags too when you hand cycle. Once they cycle and the guns go into battery OK, then do live rounds.

 

[jackson1]

I agree with AckleymanII. Life long revolver guy. Bought my Hillary pistol early last fall. My Colt Gold Cup is just a target gun and I only shoot cast semi wad cutters thru it. Again I thought I knew how to handload it, wrong. This round headspaces on the mouth. Along with to much crimp, I guessed at the OAL and got that wrong also. After one bad day at the range, I quickly wised up. Fortunately a friend had a pistol the used half moon clips and he shot them. Break in and finding an accurate functional load presented more minor problems for me. Now I have a fun, good running pistol. The only problem left, is finding and picking up my brass. Luckily, the past few sessions, I have come home with more brass the I brought.

 

[alb]

I think it's one thing if you order up a custom rifle, specify a tight chamber that you know you're going to have to neck turn for, etc., but if you have a factory gun that won't feed factory ammo, me, I'd get that fixed.

 

[riflewoman]

Reloading good accurate loads for a 1911 is NOT difficult nor is it more complex than loading for a 1000 yard rifle. I’ve done both.

A 1911 45 is not now nor will it ever be a bench rifle, so don’t expect it to even respond to bench loading techniques. The bullets are barely MOA capable. More like 2 MOA. Primers don’t matter. Case lengths don’t matter much.

What does matter? Decent bullets, powder charge balanced between good velocity and function, seating and crimp consistency. That’s it. Sort cases only for seating and crimp consistency and powder balance. So sort them by make. Until they have 5 firings then they go in the practice bin.

Here are a couple of targets shot at 25 yards. The one with the larger number of holes was shot for practice. The other was a chronograph session. Both were shot iron sights. The loads were all bought 200 gr Cast SWC. 3.8 BE for the chronograph session 3.4 700X for the practice. Mixed brass in the chrono session.

It ain’t that hard.

 

[hoz53]

Hoz53 - what's the issue with Bullseye? It shoots very well out of my .357 mag. Encore. I do shoot 231 out of my M&P Pro 9mm it's not as accurate as the .357 but it also isn't a 13" Match grade barrel so it's not a fair comparison.

just me i guess

 

[joshb]

Makes me proud to be an American, seeing a lady shoot like that!!

 

[powderbrake]

I almost hate to post this non obsessive/compulsive approach on Accurate shooter.com, but for the plinker use the op has stated, 45 ACP is about the easiest caliber to load.

Don't bother to separate cases by maker, don't need to trim the case length (it shoulders on the case mouth), don't care about primer brand. Get a decent lead 200 gr SWC, and load it to the length shown in Riflewoman's post.(about 1/16" out from the case mouth. Fill it with 3.8 gr of Bullseye, and it is a soft shooting very accurate load. This load works well in all the various 45's that I own. Use taper crimp dies (I use Dillon dies in a Dillon 550). I just tumble my brass until nice and shiny, and run them thru the Dillon (carbide dies, no lube necessary). Another suggestion, a Lee ProDisk measure in place of the Dillon measure, more accurate, has a shut off.

On my Dillon 550, I place a Lee Factory Crimp Die in the last station that would normally be empty with a 3 die set. This great die can be adjusted to crimp, or not, but it's big advantage is it has a carbide sizing ring, which resizes (or checks the size) of each case, thus eliminating any need to check the cases in a gun or a cartridge gauge.

An advantage of Dillon dies is the large radius at the entrance, the case mouth will not catch on the die bottom when sizing.

For 230 gr ball ammo, I use any brand jacketed or plated bullet, with about 5 gr of Bullseye, which is close to a factory load. I use this for IDPA. It is a lot more recoil than the 200 /3.8 plinking/target load.

To the OP: You are already a reloader, so all the super duper, sorting, trimming, $1000 powder scale, obsessive /compulsive, ADD procedures that we reloaders do for extreme rifle accuracy are NOT needed in reloading 45ACP. It is so easy you could almost throw all the parts in a cardboard box, shake it up, and roll out finished rounds.

Note;
For CCW carry or defensive rounds, I recommend Factory ammo. For Bullseye accuracy, I use Winchester cases, with the same 200SWC and 3.8gr Bullseye.​

 

[AckleymanII]

Accuracy and your application vs someone else can be very, very different.

I shot IDPA and hunted coyotes and Javelina with my 45 and 357's.

Accuracy demands in Loading for IDPA is a LOT different than loading for a hunting pistol.

For plinking loads, I agree with Powderbrake completely! You don't have to sort brass by brand or be choosy on primers. Just be aware that loads fired from glock pistols may have a bulge on the brass. I had a Kaboom during an IDPA match, blew the mag out the bottom of the Stainless frame Kimber. I stuck another mag in and kept on rolling after the scare wore off.

For a guy starting out, AA#5 is very, very clean burning compared to 231 and bullseye(which is like pouring dirt in your pistol), and #5 is extremely accurate with bullet weights from 185g to 230g bullets.

45 ACP load tuning for superb Hunting accuracy which may also help you enjoy your plinking loads:

*Be aware of varying dimensions of Forster, redding, Lee, and RCBS taper crimp dies
*Primer changes MAY make a difference in your load tune
*Sort brass by brand, I like Winchester because it seems plentiful enough for me to end up with all the same brand
*Over all length of loaded rounds can be huge in pressure changes, and load tune nodes
*Throat dimensions between pistols can be huge
*Over all length between pistols does vary, and best to use the barrel as a go gauge, keep in mind the max length for the mag
*If your 45 has "Match" stamped on the barrel, throat, oal, and case dia maybe different than a regular 45(this is what got me into trouble on my first 45 that was a total custom).
*various bullet designs may give a different OAL that will chamber and feed reliably

I highly recommend this guy's cast bullets, and the bullets you receive is exactly like the pictures:

http://www.gunbroker.com/item/723153971

good luck!

 

[243winxb]

1911 will be used a lot for woods / adventure walks so distances anywhere from 20 - 100 yards.

The best target guns will produce 3" or smaller groups at 50 yards. This accuracy requires match grade components.