The business side of gunsmithing

[DR_2297]

The business side is a part time job on top of the full time job of making actual $. The ins and outs of accounting and taxes and collecting and remitting alone are enough to bring anyone’s mood down.

I do this part time right now as I work full time as an engineer for the biggest of the Big 3. I figure I have 10 years left before I want to “retire” and turn my part time gig into a full time (ish) gig to pay the bills and minimize drawing from retirement funds. I am not cheap and I am not expensive. Everything I have is paid for and adequate for turning out world class work for the work I do. At this time I refuse to pay myself less per hour to work for myself than my employer pays me per hour. Some ppl though think it’s still 1995 and everyone should work for $20/hr

My Dad owned his own business for 30 years. When he passed I had the pleasure of figuring everything associated with it out. He was self taught and to take care of all of the financial aspects of his S Corp he paid a CPA VERY well. There is no way I could absorb those costs on the income from my business so I need to learn the ways of the business world.

I am actually in process of applying to graduate school to work on my MBA. I figure it will aid me in this last quarter of my primary career and will benefit my little smithing / machining business now and into the future. Especially the marketing, entrepreneurial and account aspects.

So that brings up a question. From walk up to the lathe to barreled action ready to return to customer, how long does it take the rest of you using a manual lathe? I am right about 4 hours at this moment, best ever is 3 hours when all stars aligned. That’s disassemble rifle / action / bolt, setup blank through head stock, direct indicating, thru muzzle coolant, thread, chamber, crown, engrave, install, reassemble. That’s as long as the barrel lends itself to not fighting me to indicate.

 

[LVLAaron]

The business side is a part time job on top of the full time job of making actual $. The ins and outs of accounting and taxes and collecting and remitting alone are enough to bring anyone’s mood down.

I do this part time right now as I work full time as an engineer for the biggest of the Big 3. I figure I have 10 years left before I want to “retire” and turn my part time gig into a full time (ish) gig to pay the bills and minimize drawing from retirement funds. I am not cheap and I am not expensive. Everything I have is paid for and adequate for turning out world class work for the work I do. At this time I refuse to pay myself less per hour to work for myself than my employer pays me per hour. Some ppl though think it’s still 1995 and everyone should work for $20/hr

My Dad owned his own business for 30 years. When he passed I had the pleasure of figuring everything associated with it out. He was self taught and to take care of all of the financial aspects of his S Corp he paid a CPA VERY well. There is no way I could absorb those costs on the income from my business so I need to learn the ways of the business world.

I am actually in process of applying to graduate school to work on my MBA. I figure it will aid me in this last quarter of my primary career and will benefit my little smithing / machining business now and into the future. Especially the marketing, entrepreneurial and account aspects.

So that brings up a question. From walk up to the lathe to barreled action ready to return to customer, how long does it take the rest of you using a manual lathe? I am right about 4 hours at this moment, best ever is 3 hours when all stars aligned. That’s disassemble rifle / action / bolt, setup blank through head stock, direct indicating, thru muzzle coolant, thread, chamber, crown, engrave, install, reassemble. That’s as long as the barrel lends itself to not fighting me to indicate.

2 hours if everything goes well. I checked my shop camera for one I just did. Took 90 minutes to take a gun apart, new barrel in the lathe, chamber, install tuner, clean up, barrel back on the bench. Another 30 minutes will be needed to laser engrave, polish, and wipe down.

If that were a big magnum and I didn't have core drills and the flush system, it would probably be double that. I try to simplify anything that is tedious or time consuming.

 

[tobnpr]

At this time I refuse to pay myself less per hour to work for myself than my employer pays me per hour.

Well there ya go... you have your base hourly labor cost for determining pricing for services.

While it's always interesting to see what various shops charge for any given service, there's a wide variation largely hinging on the overhead of the business. A $50,000 CNC needs to cut "X" number of barrels to cover the monthly payment (or opportunity cost), and fixed overhead can vary from a many thousands of square feet commercial building to a 1,000 sq ft shop at your residence. Every smith, and shop has a different formula for OVH & P.

All I've ever cared about is what the work costs ME, less about what someone else charges. My business degree has been invaluable in every business I've owned, but nowadays it's much easier to get snapshots of your financial picture via Quickbooks and periodic reviews with the CPA.

 

[std7mag]

As @tobnpr, stated. If you go the CNC route, that machine needs to be running to help pay for itself.

BUT.....

With it running, there is also the cost of keeping it running. Or getting it up and running to begin with.
Tooling is anywhere from $80-300+ per tooling station in the tool turret. Depending on the type of machine you're looking at 10-30 tools per machine.
Then there is the inserts. Figure typically about $17 per insert(Carbide). On some of the tooling I use there are 7 inserts per tool (milling).
Oh, and there are different inserts for different material.
And don't think that the inserts/drills/reamers last forever.
I have some material that I'm turning the inserts to a fresh point after running just 2 pieces.

Don't forget about the coolant!

Oh, and when the machine breaks down. Not only are you paying for getting it fixed, but the work it was doing comes to a screeching halt also so it's not making money.

Plus if you need to program it, your looking at the cost of the CAD/CAM program plus the time it takes to do that.

If I recall correctly, the shop I work at charges $130 per hour. That covers programming, or actual machining.
Tooling costs I believe are added on.

 

[Judd]

I’m prolly closer to 6 hours, no flush system.

I hate the paper work aspect of it. Example two quarters in the last year I’ve missed my sales tax cut off and had to pay a penalty . Just busy with life and that slips through the cracks.

 

[Dave in WI]

"The only way to make a million dollars gunsmithing, is by starting with 2 million dollars."

 

[ELR LVR]

The business side is a part time job on top of the full time job of making actual $. The ins and outs of accounting and taxes and collecting and remitting alone are enough to bring anyone’s mood down.

I do this part time right now as I work full time as an engineer for the biggest of the Big 3. I figure I have 10 years left before I want to “retire” and turn my part time gig into a full time (ish) gig to pay the bills and minimize drawing from retirement funds. I am not cheap and I am not expensive. Everything I have is paid for and adequate for turning out world class work for the work I do. At this time I refuse to pay myself less per hour to work for myself than my employer pays me per hour. Some ppl though think it’s still 1995 and everyone should work for $20/hr

My Dad owned his own business for 30 years. When he passed I had the pleasure of figuring everything associated with it out. He was self taught and to take care of all of the financial aspects of his S Corp he paid a CPA VERY well. There is no way I could absorb those costs on the income from my business so I need to learn the ways of the business world.

I am actually in process of applying to graduate school to work on my MBA. I figure it will aid me in this last quarter of my primary career and will benefit my little smithing / machining business now and into the future. Especially the marketing, entrepreneurial and account aspects.

So that brings up a question. From walk up to the lathe to barreled action ready to return to customer, how long does it take the rest of you using a manual lathe? I am right about 4 hours at this moment, best ever is 3 hours when all stars aligned. That’s disassemble rifle / action / bolt, setup blank through head stock, direct indicating, thru muzzle coolant, thread, chamber, crown, engrave, install, reassemble. That’s as long as the barrel lends itself to not fighting me to indicate.

I think 4 hours is a good number
I have seen some guys post 6-8 hrs. (maybe thats with a lot of coffee breaks??)
For those that take longer than 15 minutes to dial in a barrel - just practice more.
4 hrs is what I figure for me as well with an All Manual machine. And double checking every single step.
I think LVLAaron cuts that in half by Pre-boring and likely has many other little steps that cut down time.
So if it were a higher production type enviro - I would agree with him in taking every step to make things more efficient.
--------
On the hobby side of things - I truly believe some of us find this sort of thing therapeutic so enjoy spending time with our lathe and don't mind the 4 hours of.
listening to our favorite music,
watching chips fly with no schedule or time constraint or anywhere to be soon.
This is more if we don't do this every single day as our main job.
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When I used to machine 40 hrs a week 8 hrs a day
Yeah I took every step to maximize time and efficiency
--------
If a hobby turns into a job, we seem to enjoy it less
My dad was a pipefitter/welder, as a teen I always wanted to weld something, make a go kart etc
and always wondered why a Professional Welder did not have a welding machine in his garage
(Mainly so I could use it haha as a Hobby haha)
'When I asked him why he didn't have a welder his response was
"Well when I weld every damn day! I aint gonna do it for a hobby"
Yeah, I get that

 

[LVLAaron]

I'm exploring everything I can to be efficient. Down to where I store my cleaning patches and cleaning rods, making sure I have wrenches and tools near where they are needed, etc. I have a full tool set, but if something regularly needs a 7/8 spanner (barrel vice) it gets a dedicated spanner that hangs right by the vice.

I hope to retire from startup/corp tech life in 2-3 years and be able to live/sustain on my investments and be a full time FFL. Today I got news that I am likely going to end up getting my dream property; 20 wooded acres, who cares about the house but it's nice, brand new 40x80 pole barn with plumbing and a 200 amp service.

 

[Sniperhandle]

I'm exploring everything I can to be efficient. Down to where I store my cleaning patches and cleaning rods, making sure I have wrenches and tools near where they are needed, etc. I have a full tool set, but if something regularly needs a 7/8 spanner (barrel vice) it gets a dedicated spanner that hangs right by the vice.

I hope to retire from startup/corp tech life in 2-3 years and be able to live/sustain on my investments and be a full time FFL. Today I got news that I am likely going to end up getting my dream property; 20 wooded acres, who cares about the house but it's nice, brand new 40x80 pole barn with plumbing and a 200 amp service.

Good for you Aaron!

You're right, When I look at a home to buy, It's only the shop that matters!

 

[LVLAaron]

Officially under contract for a new place, and this is about to be Anderson Precision (name TBD) HQ.

 

[V35]

Officially under contract for a new place, and this is about to be Anderson Precision (name TBD) HQ. View attachment 1710205

Congrats, I hope you are prosperous in your endeavor.

 

[Judd]

Nice shop, congrats Aaron.

 

[DRK]

I'm exploring everything I can to be efficient. Down to where I store my cleaning patches and cleaning rods, making sure I have wrenches and tools near where they are needed, etc. I have a full tool set, but if something regularly needs a 7/8 spanner (barrel vice) it gets a dedicated spanner that hangs right by the vice.

I hope to retire from startup/corp tech life in 2-3 years and be able to live/sustain on my investments and be a full time FFL. Today I got news that I am likely going to end up getting my dream property; 20 wooded acres, who cares about the house but it's nice, brand new 40x80 pole barn with plumbing and a 200 amp service.

I've had my license almost 20 years. Done it both ways, full time FFL & working full time (for a family owned medium sized company) & doing just enough to justify keeping the license. I wish you well in any event, I am happier working & doing less with my license.