The business side of gunsmithing

[DRK]

For all we know, LRI may lease the equipment or otherwise make payments on it. He may also have a production side of things making parts for this industry or general industry as a whole. Look at Ruger, one side of their business is firearms, the other investment castings, i.e. Pine Tree.

Just remember with the new CNC equipment, it is great until it breaks, and it will break. I just dumped $50k into a CNC saw in the blink of an eye. Make sure you have the budget to not only buy equipment but fix it.

 

[mudduck]

You need to consult with a tax pro about the renting the shop from yourself thing. You may need to incorporate to do that. Also, there could be zoning issues. You may need to split off the part of the property the shop sits on. Depending on zoning that may or may not be possible. As far as licensing, 07 Manufacture or 01 Dealer. Both have their plus and minuses. Depends on what you plan to do, work with customer supplied serial numbered 'parts', or have the business buy serial numbered 'parts', build a firearm and sell it. State laws vary , so LLC may be an option for you. Setting up a Corp or LLC you can do yourself, without the need of a lawyer. But, you need a lawyer to explain the pluses/minus of each in your state. Other than that, it's timely and accurate record keeping like any other business. ATFE regs aren't difficult, but I am surprised how many can't seem to follow them.

This is how myself and and partners do our lumber business.

 

[CT10ring]

A bunch! But, LRI seems to run more like a production shop, yet has many options for rifles. It's about as far from "traditional gunsmithing" as you can get, I don't think you can get anything there that is 'hand fit and finished'. It's all about machine work, but then, so is this forum.

LRI has done a few things for me. The quality is excellent. Price is as expected. They always finish earlier than time quoted. Customer service is excellent-call and talk to someone who understands exactly what the issue is.

 

[CT10ring]

I'll give you an example. I recently had someone tell me if I'm going to sell shouldered prefits that I'm going to have to get a laser engraver so that my barrels look as professional as so-and-so's barrels. I simply don't see that laser engraving would pay for itself anytime soon and it does absolutely nothing for the final product. I know there are people that have hobby gunsmith shops and have lasers.

I know that my engraver here who does my barrels when I do batches turned his nose up at my dremel engraving at the end of the tenon. He thought it looked like crap. I've never had a customer who commented on it and I don't know of any customer who cares.

We used to have a philosophy at International Truck. We talked about core business. What is your core business? Is your core business laser engraving and engraving software, or is your core business barrels (for example). Is laser engraving going to make your barrel shoot smaller groups? These are questions that address, I think, true wise business core values.

I think people can spend money on things that aren't their core business and go down rabbit holes that don't make them any money. The goal is to make business decisions to put your money in things that make you money.

I have always said that Gunsmiths don't get paid enough/They Don't make that much money for the time they spend doing the work and the investment they have to lay out for the tools and equipment. When you are done working on gun stuff for the day, Then the paperwork/ordering/restocking,invoicing, repairing your equipt etc. begins. People always want a Lathe, That's the cheap part. It takes years to learn and perfect your skills.

I just met a local gunsmith. He does not advertise, period. I only knew of him from my part-time job delivering to his shop for UPS. He is a highly skilled machinist. He charges $250 for 50 rounds of loaded ammo ( for the riflews he builds). If you saw what methods and tools he uses to make that ammo, you'd think $300-400 would be a deal.

 

[Ggmac]

Correct, looking running a business tips, pointers, pitfalls. Preferably gunsmithing business specific, I know business is business, but each has their own intricacies that can make a difference.

I do not plan to jump in full time right off the bat. Build a shop on my property and work out of it. Plan is to rent my shop from me to separate shop from gunsmithing business for liability reasons, and I am pretty sure it's better on tax side of things.

Work full time at my regular job or hopefully at the gun shop I've been part time for the past year if we can agree on numbers. I wiuld like to use home shop for my niche as well as supplement the main shop that doesn't have machinery (we are pretty general repair type shop for now).

I think I'm in a pretty good position here by not 100% relying on my own shop for income, but still want to learn from those of you that run a shop of your own.

Good liability attorneys an easily pierce llc or corporations. You could sit in on a few case trials , you’ll be shocked and scared . I kept liability ins 20 + yrs after I stopped my ffl . It all depends on your wealth and age . The more you have , the easier it is for the other side to find an attorney to sue you .
My advice is to speak to an attorney and ask specific questions regarding your states laws and assert protection.
Good luck .

 

[urbanrifleman]

A bunch! But, LRI seems to run more like a production shop, yet has many options for rifles. It's about as far from "traditional gunsmithing" as you can get, I don't think you can get anything there that is 'hand fit and finished'. It's all about machine work, but then, so is this forum.

The point I was trying to make. These CNC shops many times do production, not what is traditionally called "gunsmithing".

I do 99% production. Although manual.

 

[VA_XTC_Shooter]

What about doing work for other shops? General rule of thumb for an arrangement? Bill them your normal rate, or reduced since they are bringing in the work?

 

[DRK]

Depends on what they want, how often, repetitively, etc.

 

[Sniperhandle]

The point I was trying to make. These CNC shops many times do production, not what is traditionally called "gunsmithing".

I do 99% production. Although manual.

With the money from those 3 lathes you have bought in the last 6 months you could have bought a Used Haas Cnc like Dave Tooley's and cut your production time down to a fraction of what you are spending now. Dial in the barrels and then press start, In a short time you can move to chambering etc. You could probably do ten times the volume and lower your prices a little more but make a lot more money.

Pay a consultant and or programmer to teach you how to run it. Here is a nice one in my area with low hours. Time is money!

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[WSnyder]

How many dollars did Chad Dixon spend for equipment?

Chad started with used equipment quite some time ago. I’ll bet that initial investment has been paid for already many times over. He earned the startup money, had a vision and looks to me like he’s been pretty successful. I remember many said he wouldn’t pull it off (CNC based gunsmithing).

 

[urbanrifleman]

With the money from those 3 lathes you have bought in the last 6 months you could have bought a Used Haas Cnc like Dave Tooley's and cut your production time down to a fraction of what you are spending now. Dial in the barrels and then press start, In a short time you can move to chambering etc. You could probably do ten times the volume and lower your prices a little more but make a lot more money.

Pay a consultant and or programmer to teach you how to run it. Here is a nice one in my area with low hours. Time is money!

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I haven't bought three lathes. And the Acer I just bought is replacing my Grizzly. Which will be for sale.

You don't know my production time. My cycle time on my barrels is just fine.

I really don't want a CNC machine. Not at this time.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

His main business is as a general contractor
A lot of his machine/tooling investment was initially for doing his own rifle work, it’s nice he’s expanded to brakes, tuners and dies.

Simply not true.

 

[urbanrifleman]

Simply not true.

Ok I'll bite. What is the story? I'd love to know.

 

[rijndael]

Ok I'll bite. What is the story? I'd love to know.

He's full time in gun stuff, he quit doing his construction stuff.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Thats it. Hes not been a contractor for years.

 

[Dgd6mm]

Erik knows how to make money and follow his passions.

I worked concrete for over 30 years pouring and finishing. During that time I worked 20 years for 1 and 10 years for another. They are both millionaires today.
I worked for a couple others also that did good. Don't ever let anyone tell you there's not good money in concrete work.

 

[Capt. Oblivious]

I heard an older gentleman tell his grand son once "just because you can't afford it doesn't mean other people can't"

 

[davidjoe]

I’ll add a couple comments that may be helpful from the customer side.

Is there a good customer base around you, and/or already lots of competition? The reason is that one or maybe two hour driving distance to my gunsmith is extremely important to me. My main gs work is chambering blanks, many blanks, that I’ve already bought and received, and some guys like me aren’t likely to pay for shipping two more times.

Nothing wrong with a hobby interest smith as we all often pour our very best efforts into what we love to do, but is there a background in detailed work, or good results in challenging shooting, or guns you have or you’ve worked on for customers to see, so that new customers will understand the long term interest before the shop started, and appreciation of good work.

 

[LVLAaron]

If you’re backed up a year… raise your prices.