The big primer seating debate

[Tommie]

A lot of people, perhaps new, didn't participate in the previous discussions, likely. We owe it to them to share what we know, or not. Just depends on one's patience and willingness to SHARE

Yeah I guess since resurrecting zombie threads is against forum policy we’ll resurrect zombie subjects.

 

[Retired shooter]

If the search function was utilized more often, it would solve many issues.

To all a good day !

 

[speedygonzalez]

I just conducted my own two year test of primer seating in actual competition. Brian " The Witch Doctor" mentioned some things in his podcast that seemed plausible. Being the my real name is Thomas and a true doubting Thomas at that, I had to test this for myself. After two years of testing in actual matches around Texas and now South Carolina, my best results according to two years of data points to having the print just seat on the pocket floor to .001 of crush. When oover seating or crushing the primer, the rifles would spit shots into the conditions randomly.
That's all I got,
Keep'em small!
Speedy

PS: I use a Sinclair 2000, I have had for years with the addition of the Second Hand to hold it vertically on my loading bench.. Watch the video and start about minute 38 to see it live.

 

[wywindsor]

Here's my view. Theres lots of information out there. I look all over the net for it. I also use the search function here. I find old videos on youtube which all contradict from one to another. Some are the same folks that either change their mind or didn't have it right to begin with.

So with that said the person who can set a primer by feel and has good results, my hats off to them.
Speed wise I think any lee, Rcbs, Lyman, or my preferred one the Frankfort tray style. The last one has an adjustment that uses the case extractor groove. And no you cannot seat primers to an exact depth with it from the base measurement. I'm sure most all of you know this. Back to why we need a 700 dollar press or why Hornady just built a new one that does the same thing. Uses the groove to hold the case.

So until you weigh and measure all aspects of the primer to figure out what method you like. There is not a tool on the market that will seat a primer the same every time. Assuming you want the same crush or depth. The only way I see this working is by running a dowl inside the case to hold it firm against a plate then a bottom feed ram to set the primer. Now you would have depth and crush. Hell you could use a Amp press type device. More $hit to think about.

 

[Retired shooter]

I just conducted my own two year test of primer seating in actual competition. Brian " The Witch Doctor" mentioned some things in his podcast that seemed plausible. Being the my real name is Thomas and a true doubting Thomas at that, I had to test this for myself. After two years of testing in actual matches around Texas and now South Carolina, my best results according to two years of data points to having the print just seat on the pocket floor to .001 of crush. When oover seating or crushing the primer, the rifles would spit shots into the conditions randomly.
That's all I got,
Keep'em small!
Speedy

PS: I use a Sinclair 2000, I have had for years with the addition of the Second Hand to hold it vertically on my loading bench.. Watch the video and start about minute 38 to see it live.

Looks like an awesome facility. Would be terrible, absolutely terrible, to have something like that so close to home.

 

[FTR_Mojo]

The only way I see this working is by running a dowl inside the case to hold it firm against a plate then a bottom feed ram to set the primer. Now you would have depth and crush.

You've just described the Lee ACP. It exists. Sort of.... It's discontinued.

 

[Keith Hansley in NC]

a proper sized metal punch and a big hammer. if it doesn't go bang when seating, then you are good to go

 

[Downhill]

I just push them in until they stop at the bottom of the pocket. Have neither the time or desire to overthink such a simple step in reloading.

 

[Albany Mountain]

You got to take the high dollar accessories usage with a grain of salt. Sure many of the top shooters use them but how many have the privilege of testing out these top line products at no cost?? or how many are marketing them their selves at a high cost.
I once shot and won a standing 100 shot match with a newly purchased Remington 700 BDL Varmit barreled 308 after I installed redfield sights on it. Most people were interested in loads velocities and almost called me a liar after I told them I never grouped the gun. I swore after this that if I hung a brassiere off the end of the barrel while shooting, at the next match there would be many brassieres flying in the wind.

 

[DLT]

I just push them in until they stop at the bottom of the pocket. Have neither the time or desire to overthink such a simple step in reloading.

Amen brother. Preach it

 

[BoydAllen]

With all the new products to seat primers. Where does it matter from? Some say .001 to .003 recessed from case base. Others say seat from the rim/ extractor groove like most conventional seaters do. Or by feel. What your perspective? And why do we need 700 dollar primer seaters?

A lot of very credible shooters seat primers by feel, so that they are firmly bottomed in the primer pocket. If you seat a few like this and measure their depth, I think that you will find them to be quite a bit deeper than that. Beyond this, there are people out there who just can't help themselves, who have time on their hands, who like complexity and expensive shiny stuff.

 

[Retired shooter]

You got to take the high dollar accessories usage with a grain of salt. Sure many of the top shooters use them but how many have the privilege of testing out these top line products at no cost?? or how many are marketing them their selves at a high cost.
I once shot and won a standing 100 shot match with a newly purchased Remington 700 BDL Varmit barreled 308 after I installed redfield sights on it. Most people were interested in loads velocities and almost called me a liar after I told them I never grouped the gun. I swore after this that if I hung a brassiere off the end of the barrel while shooting, at the next match there would be many brassieres flying in the wind.

Same as any other sport, or hobby. Either that, or" he is cheating,) ( really how do you know he is cheating ,?
because he beat me, and I'm cheating also) . Best part of rule books Whats not mentioned.

To all a good day.

 

[wywindsor]

Same as any other sport, or hobby. Either that, or" he is cheating,) ( really how do you know he is cheating ,?
because he beat me, and I'm cheating also) . Best part of rule books Whats not mentioned.

To all a good day.

Too funny

 

[Richard Jones]

I used to post the 'treatise' that Dusty wrote about primers and his little 'plug'. Never had any response, etc., so just quit. I still think it's a good option.

 

[Pete Wass]

Same goes for presses, your dies determine how good your cases are going to be. Don't worry about their driver.

 

[Anchorite]

This may have been mentioned elsewhere in the posts in this thread, but start with good cases, then uniform/debur and square those pockets and seat without a lot of crush and go bust’em.

I have neither the time or inclination to measure all the possible ways I’m not doing it right according to someone else. There are enough other variables to sweat that in my opinion are more critical.

I do run my fingertip over the case once seated to make sure nothing really jumps out at me. YMMV.

 

[Mblmotors]

I just conducted my own two year test of primer seating in actual competition. Brian " The Witch Doctor" mentioned some things in his podcast that seemed plausible. Being the my real name is Thomas and a true doubting Thomas at that, I had to test this for myself. After two years of testing in actual matches around Texas and now South Carolina, my best results according to two years of data points to having the print just seat on the pocket floor to .001 of crush. When oover seating or crushing the primer, the rifles would spit shots into the conditions randomly.
That's all I got,
Keep'em small!
Speedy

PS: I use a Sinclair 2000, I have had for years with the addition of the Second Hand to hold it vertically on my loading bench.. Watch the video and start about minute 38 to see it live.

I likewise watch Brian and test primer seating myself to a degree. I did notice at least 1 flier in almost every group seating Fed 205M to .008.
My method was to measure the Alpha Primer pockets and 205M's. The Alpha pockets ranged by about .002's in depth. The federal 205M where anywhere from .117 to .122 when put on the micrometer.
I can and did uniform the Alpha pockets the constant .123, but to accomodate the shallowest primer .117 I would have to go in .007 for the .001 light crush, while the .122 primer would get .006 crush. Not sure how to deal with this situation outside of sorting the primers by their thickness, or basically sorting the messy manufacturers anvil seating in the cups.
Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[ELR LVR]

rather than worrying about primer crush
and measuring such a thing
---
I think it would be more actual scientific and get better results to
Uniform the depth of the flash hole so the flame front coming out of it is the same
---
Let consider you have for instance - uniformed the depths of the pockets
good
But now whats to say the brass isnt thicker INSIDE on some cases than others
resulting in a longer column for the flash to have to travel
Have you uniformed the depth where the flame front exits - INSIDE the case?
---
Unless you are uniforming the depth of the column ALONG with the depth of the pocket
I think your test and results will be erratic and more a waste of time simply worrying about how much you seat the primer itself into the pocket
---
its how much the flame has to travel and the other side is whats more important
Think of it more like a fuel injector
the inside(Injector Tip) and injector depth is what determines the spray pattern

 

[Mblmotors]

Appreciate the point you are making regarding the flame column and distance the igniter will travel to the powder column. I did not take any of this in consideration for my lack of ability to test something this complex. I am primarily concerned with setting off the primer with a plunge of the firing pin as part of the ignition process. I am concerned with the varying distance the pin will travel and its momentum being same as it hits the primer. I am also thinking about the primer moving forward if not seated solidly enough. This motion will be dissipating the force of the falling pin.

 

[BoydAllen]

rather than worrying about primer crush
and measuring such a thing
---
I think it would be more actual scientific and get better results to
Uniform the depth of the flash hole so the flame front coming out of it is the same
---
Let consider you have for instance - uniformed the depths of the pockets
good
But now whats to say the brass isnt thicker INSIDE on some cases than others
resulting in a longer column for the flash to have to travel
Have you uniformed the depth where the flame front exits - INSIDE the case?
---
Unless you are uniforming the depth of the column ALONG with the depth of the pocket
I think your test and results will be erratic and more a waste of time simply worrying about how much you seat the primer itself into the pocket
---
its how much the flame has to travel and the other side is whats more important
Think of it more like a fuel injector
the inside(Injector Tip) and injector depth is what determines the spray pattern.

I suggest you review the result gotten by shooters who seat by feel. Do you know who Wayne Campbell is and what his record in competition is...seriously, do you? There are a lot of people who post a lot of things under screen names. We have no idea who they are. You might want to think about that for a minute....or a little longer.