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That infernal heartbeat !!!!!

I have identical barreled actions, matching 4-20x scopes, in 2 different style stocks. One HS precision police other is Blackhawk axiom, the HS dead steady, the Blackhawk I see the .25 moa dot jump center to left side of .5 moa bullseye with each heartbeat. Using bags front and back, shooting right handed I have to grip the adjustable stock lever on top of the rear bag to eliminate most of the movement. It is such a stark difference looking through the scope, it almost made me buy a second HS stock. But I had that axiom stock for 6 years of all winter pickup hunting and never had to make a scope adjustment, in and out,warm to below zero and back in the house. Hard to change from what is reliable.
 
Just a related piece of information; I shot on the varsity pistol team in college (mid 1960s), and we were always looking for anything that was related to heartbeat/wobble area that might improve our scores in slow fire - same for the rifle guys in offhand. From a surprising source (not that they researched it, but, at that time, that they released their findings to the rest of the world), the Russians did quite a project and stated that in slow fire pistol or off hand rifle, if you could not achieve the sight picture you wanted and get the shot off in a maximum of 14 seconds, put the firearm down, take a few deep breaths, and start over again, as your wobble area starts to increase dramatically at anything over 14 seconds.
I totally concur with this.
 
For those who made diet / lifestyle observations, thx. I don't smoke coffee, or drink :) Do cardio 3x / wk. Reeled in diet and lost 25 lbs. Started a dedicated hydration program and have already seen modest improvement in eyeball "floaters"
cool, what's the hydration? If you don't mind. floaters here too.
 
cool, what's the hydration? If you don't mind. floaters here too.


Straight water. Half gallon a day.

I used to get badd floaters almost immediately when I started shooting. This past Saturday it took about a 1/2 hour 45 minutes before they started up and nowhere near as pronounced.

When they start , rotate your eyeball around. Especially move it up-and-down ceiling to floor and floaters will usually move out of the way
 
Watching one's heartbeat is a normal phenomenon in 4P (position) or silhouette shooting, even in prone position using a sling. Advice I was given by my mentor was 4-6 seconds, about 1/2 what the Ruskies recommended, to get the shot off or take a couple deep cleansing breaths and begin the pre-shot routine again. Not only will your heartbeat get stronger (not good!) with oxygen deprivation (your heart wants to pump more blood to your brain), but your vision will start to darken. This is assuming you are holding your breathe. Same issue shooting bullseye slow fire - if you can't get the shot off in 4-6 seconds start over. In silhouette or offhand, the object was to find your wobble (it'll change everytime you shoot), and work with it rather than fighting it.

One thing to try during a practice session, watch your heartbeat and your cross hair bounce. Figure out where your cross hairs settle during the beat cycle, and release your trigger wherever the crosshairs settle the longest.

Being hydrated is also good advice. And eating while you are shooting (protein and fruit/vegetables, not sugar). Interestingly enough, I found I shot better when I had a cup of coffee on my way to a competition in the morning. Rather than making me jittery it tended to focus my senses. A second cup was not good...my wobble got huge, my heartbeat was all over the place, and I couldn't find center.

I also used eyedrops to keep the eyeballs hydrated and moist, especially if it is windy or hot/dry. I use Systane - good stuff!
 
uhh, do any of you guys realize the OP’s question related to a rifle on a front /rear rest shooting from a bench, not a pistol, not prone from a sling, not offhand, not aiming the death laser at the alien invasion.
 
I shoot off bi-pods regularly, I compete in IR50 a little and some ARA matches with them. I found by using extra high rings, like Leupold see thru rings, I can keep my face off the stock. I do however use custom made bi-pods, I never mastered the Harris type to the level some have, but I can make these work. I have nothing against using a rest, they are most likely more repeatable than using a bi-pod, I just like the fact when I do shoot a really good score, that I had a lot to do with it.
 

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I shoot off bi-pods regularly, I compete in IR50 a little and some ARA matches with them. I found by using extra high rings, like Leupold see thru rings, I can keep my face off the stock. I do however use custom made bi-pods, I never mastered the Harris type to the level some have, but I can make these work. I have nothing against using a rest, they are most likely more repeatable than using a bi-pod, I just like the fact when I do shoot a really good score, that I had a lot to do with it.

I used a traditional front rest and stunk it up mightily.:)

Back to the Atlas bipod.
 
I used a traditional front rest and stunk it up mightily.:)

Back to the Atlas bipod.

First time I used a front rest (Bald Eagle version) in a ARA match, I got very frustrated with it due to lack of experience using it. I made several trips to the range just to practice setting the damned thing up, getting the rear bag set right, and the rifle riding the set up good. Did not even fire any shots as I was focused on getting the "set up" down. Then I started shooting targets and learned what I needed to so I could use the rest. Mine is not a high $$ set up but it's functional, and serves my purpose to have some fun at the matches.
 
First time I used a front rest (Bald Eagle version) in a ARA match, I got very frustrated with it due to lack of experience using it. I made several trips to the range just to practice setting the damned thing up, getting the rear bag set right, and the rifle riding the set up good. Did not even fire any shots as I was focused on getting the "set up" down. Then I started shooting targets and learned what I needed to so I could use the rest. Mine is not a high $$ set up but it's functional, and serves my purpose to have some fun at the matches.

Can you tell me what you learned about proper set up of the front bag ?
 
I took yawls advice of a later/looser hold of the rifle and that seemed to mitigate heart beat somewhat. Thanks.
 
I've never seen heart beat while shooting ara ir ir50 I don't have to "hold" the rifle for it to do its job.
The process of target shooting off a bench and the traditional "way to hold a rifle" doesn't work well for me.
 
I've never seen heart beat while shooting ara ir ir50 I don't have to "hold" the rifle for it to do its job.
The process of target shooting off a bench and the traditional "way to hold a rifle" doesn't work well for me.

Bingo,
A good rest/bag setup and free recoil or possibly light touch, which demands the former is what JMayo stated and, I suspect, most good bench shooters practice.
 
Here are some suggestions, which follow on some of those above.

1. Front bag. You have to match the bag to your forearm. Protektor bags come in three standard widths: three-inch flat for benchrest stocks, medium curve for round "beavertail" stocks, and narrow curve for sporter stocks. You want to be able to secure the rifle with the ears of the bag, but with a rimfire rifle, I suggest you not crank the ears down really hard because you want the stock to recoil freely. More on that below.

2. What kind of sand in the front bag? I recommend you not use "heavy" sand in the front. You want one or both bags to absorb recoil so the stock doesn't bounce so much that you get vertical dispersion. I recommend you fill the front bag with what hardware stores sell as "play" sand. Sandblasting sand like Black Diamond also works.

3. Don't fill the front bag so tight it looks like a sausage. If it's too tight, it'll be like shooting on a brick and you'll get vertical. Make sure you have some "play" in the bag, so that if you press your finger into it, you can actually depress it.

4. Rear bag. Again, get one to match your stock. Do you have a flat edge on the bottom of the butt? Get a bag with a flat space between the ears. Round butt? Get a bag with a round slot between the ears.

5. Assuming you have the right sand in the front bag, you can fill the rear bag with heavy sand if you wish. I shoot both CF and RF BR, so I use heavy sand to stabilize the rear bag during recoil. If you're shooting RF only, you can probably use lighter sand. Just make sure the bag stays put during recoil. If you're shooting on a slick concrete surface, a rear bag stabilizer helps. See <https://protektormodel.com/products/b-b-bag-stabilizer?_pos=2&_sid=51979b495&_ss=r> and <https://www.sinclairintl.com/shooti...ries/otto-rear-bag-stabilizer-prod34998.aspx>.

6. As with the front bag, don't fill the rear bag like a sausage. It should have some "give" to it. At a certain point in your learning curve you will probably experiment with "tuning" the bags with various amounts of fill to give you optimal results.

7. I have shot countless thousands of rounds off bags and have never seen pulse effect. I do when shooting with a sling, but not off bags. If you're seeing pulse, you're holding the rifle way too tight.

8. My advice: let the rifle recoil as freely as it wants. Hold it just enough to be able to keep it stable during trigger pull, but no more than that. Let it torque to the side during recoil. It won't hurt anything. Let it push your shoulder back. Don't try to oppose the recoil, because doing so will affect how the rifle moves during recoil, and, therefore, where the bullet goes. Remember that RF bullets have a relatively long dwell time in the barrel. You need perfect follow through. Stay as still as a statue for a couple of beats after the shot breaks to make sure you're not moving the rifle prematurely. You do not get extra points for cycling the bolt fast.

9. Minimize your use of muscles. Don't use your muscles to steer the rifle to your point of aim. Muscles are unreliable; they get tired and they twitch, and any change in the direction and degree of force that you exert on the rifle will affect point of impact. Steer the rifle with the windage and elevation controls on your front rest.

10. Touch the rifle as little as possible. Avoid cheek pressure. Ideally, your cheek should be off the comb or just grazing it. You may want to get higher scope rings or a higher base for the rings in order to avoid cheek pressure. Use your neck, not the stock, to support your head. Use a light grip and practically no force against your shoulder -- again, you want to let the rifle recoil freely.

11. Take your time setting up the bags and rifle on the bench. The stock should be perpendicular to the front rest's top, not at an oblique angle. You have to move the rifle around quite a bit when shooting on the RBA targets, and you want to avoid binding the stock in the front bag as you're moving it from one bull to the the next. The rear bag's slot should be in a straight line with the bore, so when you slide the rifle fore and aft, the crosshairs move straight up and down. When you set up at the beginning of the match, center the front rest's top in the middle of its windage range, and then move the front rest and rear bag until you're aiming at the middle of the target in the horizontal plane. That will maximize the amount of side to side movement you can get on the target and help keep you from binding the rifle in the front bag. The RBA target is wide, and at 50 yards, your rest may not give you much movement beyond the sides of the target.

You strike me as being very diligent and motivated in improving your shooting, and that's a great thing to see. You're now sorting through all the stuff I spent years sorting through, and am still sorting through. If you'd like to discuss by phone, send me a pm and I'll give you my phone number.

Dave Rabin
 
Can you tell me what you learned about proper set up of the front bag ?

Use "brshtr" comments as a good guide to get your set up suited for your rifle, but remember your front rest and rear bag has to be "custom" to your rifle, such as the amount of sand in each bag (firmness), etc. Your "set up" is just like a certain lot # of ammo for your gun vs someone else's gun, it may or may not work.

I use a BE cast aluminum rest & front bag, with a Protektor rear bag, windage top with the cable delete mods. I seem to have to adjust my bag ears depending on the weather, my front bag is similar to how brshtr stated, I can depress the bag with my finger, and is filled with uncooked rice. Sand seemed to get "packed" in my bag causing vertical, the rice reduced it but did not eliminate it completely.

I use a MPR 64 with a 3" front slide plate, and when I set up for a match, I spend a good bit of time getting my front rest and rear bag aligned to the target and then get the rifle settled into the front rest and bag by sliding it back and forth similar to recoil until it rides smooth and will return to the same target box as I aimed at. Sometimes I have to press the rifle into the front rest more, or the rear bag to get it to settle down and ride good.

My set up is at the lower end of the spectrum, I know that but I'm not willing to spend the $$ for a one piece rest. One of the better shooters & match director has looked my set up over, and since it returns to the "box" of the target on a consistent basis, and NOT to the center dot/bulls eye dot, it's probably as good as it's gonna get without a new "set up". I don't take these matches too serious, I'm there for the fun/fellowship and the opportunity to see other set ups and good targets. There are several of us who compete with similar sets to mine for "bragging rights", and we all enjoy the harrassment we dish out to each other. None of us take the matches as serious as some of the other competitors do, none of us are willing to dedicate the time and $$ to the full blown competitive rigs like our match director has as we have other hobbies/interests/commitments that we prefer.

It all boils down to how "serious" are you going to be about this, and how wide are you willing to open up the wallet. Chasing rimfire ammo lot #'s is major commitment to be at the top of the heap.
 
It all boils down to how "serious" are you going to be about this, and how wide are you willing to open up the wallet. Chasing rimfire ammo lot #'s is major commitment to be at the top of the heap.


I've definitely done the "ammo chase" - more than a dozen different brands, then further down the rabbit hole of multiple lot numbers for both Tenex and Midas +

Is not a money thing for me so much as it is a resistance to joysticks and micrometer adjustment rests... which for one are kinda "cheatin" for our friendly matches and secondly remove the human element too much for my preferences.

I won 2 of 4 matches with my bipod....so with it I have at least a mental comfort level , if not a competetive advantage.

But I think my sub par shooting this last match was not so much due to the front rest vs. bipod as the wicked swirling winds, sub standard wind flags and terrible mechanics of the shooter on that day. :)

For my practice card, I shot 10 of 11 x's.... and then I got lazy and careless.
 

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