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testing without chronograph

I hope to be shooting my new Savage soon (weather permitting )just to get the barrel broke in a little and find thes houlder in my chamber.
I don't have a chrono and want to be systematic in finding my powder charge and seating depth.
I saw info regarding shooting a waterline at 300 yards with .010 grain powder changes to see any vwetical flat spots in the different charges and this would be a node.
After this seating depth changes starting at touch and backing out .002 at time to see the effects of the seating changes.
I could be all wet in these assumptions but this is all new to me.
Any guidance here would be a great help.

Thanks, G
 
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I usually turn a target over and make rows of small bullseyes with a marker and washer. With this I can read the load test like a book.
 
I hope you have a large supply of components because you are going use a lot.
I would suggest you furnish your caliber, rifle details, component details, intended use and ask members for their help. You have some world-class experts on this site and they are very generous with their experience.
 
I hope you have a large supply of components because you are going use a lot.
I would suggest you furnish your caliber, rifle details, component details, intended use and ask members for their help. You have some world-class experts on this site and they are very generous with their experience.
Good idea.
Some share freely and some not so much. I have asked and got help from some, I was also told to go to the range and do my own work. Maybe the Christmas spirit will give you a hand.

Have fun Don
 
Yeah. People are different.
In my own experience on this forum, there are several people with deep experience/expertise who provide good feedback and help. I have seen, from time to time, people who appeared to be saying 'do your own work'. But there are many more who help as much as they can.
 
You might want to take a look at Erik Cortina's load development method for your charge weight testing:


Although the thread is 113 pages long, you need only go through the first few pages for the methodology itself. The rest is largely devoted to people's test target and discussion about them, which can also be very useful as examples.

Erik's method is simple, straightforward, only requires a 100 yd range, and it works. This method of testing is also referred to an an "Optimal Charge Weight", or "OCW" test. You can do a search for Dan Newberry OCW Test. In a nutshell, the centerpoint of groups fired with [incrementally] increasing charge weight will move around in relation to the point of aim (POI). You're looking for a charge weight window of at least two to three (or more) groups representing successive charge weight increments where the centerpoint of each group has the same position relative to the POI. What that really means is a charge weight window across which the barrel harmonics/timing remain relatively constant as charge weight increases; i.e. relatively stable. By inference, a charge weight selected from the middle of this window would also be stable and therefore resistant to temperature-induce velocity changes. Although many find having velocity/chronograph data a valuable addition to this test, it is not absolutely essential. Movement of the group centerpoints about the POI (i.e. the target itself) are all you need to interpret the results of the test. You can also post the target in Erik's thread to get plenty of feedback and/or suggestions.

Information your initial post lacks is the cartridge/powder/bullet combination with which you will be working. It might be beneficial to add that information. Your seating depth testing approach should work as is, but you might wish to use a different increment than .002", at least initially, so you can cover a wider seating depth window with fewer loaded rounds. The use of .003" is common, or you might even try a preliminary seating depth test using .005" increments. However, .005" is a very coarse increment and it is possible to miss things on occasion. Likewise, 0.1 gr is a very fine charge weight increment. It is rare, although not unheard of, to find reloaders using a smaller charge weight increment than 0.1 gr in a charge weight test. My point here is that by providing the specific cartridge/bullet/powder combination you intend to test, it may be possible to obtain better feedback from members that may have developed similar loads on the relative size of charge weight and seating depth increments to use in your testing. It may also provide useful information on about where you might expect your load to tune in.

Finally, I would suggest that if you can find someone in your area that is an experienced reloader to help you as you get started, it will be of significant benefit. The process can seem daunting at first, and having someone available to answer questions verbally can be very useful.
 
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I hope to be shooting my new Savage soon (weather permitting )just to get the barrel broke in a little and find thes houlder in my chamber.
I don't have a chrono and want to be systematic in finding my powder charge and seating depth.
I saw info regarding shooting a waterline at 300 yards with .010 grain powder changes to see any vwetical flat spots in the different charges and this would be a node.
After this seating depth changes starting at touch and backing out .002 at time to see the effects of the seating changes.
I could be all wet in these assumptions but this is all new to me.
Any guidance here would be a great help.

Thanks, G
Yes as other members have mentioned, post up what your intent
to work on is. and most important to me is, your barrel and its specs.
Do you have a shooting discipline you favor, or just casual at this point ??
 
i usually start with .3 increments for first testing, then .1's. To be honest I usually find a node in the first tests at 100, then move out to 500 or 600. Zero the rifle for 500 at the best node found and work on from there. That gives the best spread of shots. I can often find someone at the range that will lend a LabRadar, although I do have a Magnetospeed, which is OK for benchmark speed tests, but upsets the group too much at the longer distances.
 
For testing at 300, do get a set of wind flags so you will at the very least know what the conditions are doing.

Tail winds and headwinds can cause vertical just like crosswinds can cause horizontal stringing. Right to left conditions tend to drive bullets up and away while left to right drives them down and away.
Knowing how conditions are affecting the bullets flight is paramount.

we see far to many shooters take the time to load up multitudes of different combinations in order to do some type of ladder test with no idea what the bullet is encountering on it’s way to the target.
 
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OK,
Savage LRPV in 6MM BR
Sightron 10-50X60
Informal Bench Rest Club shooting mostly 100 yards at first and out to 300 yards at some point.
Hosting 300 Yard egg challenge sounds like fun.
I have IMR 4895 amd WW748
Have Berger 108 and Horady 103
I have Fed Match and BR primers coming.
Want to get a good not Best front rest Possibly Bald Eagle or Protektor (sp)
Thats it for now.
 
20210908_161522.jpg
This is what i do for bench rest.
each line is .2 powder charge higher as i go.
Of course i have a starting point and I'm at touch.
Aim point is the 90° orange line bottom left of poi.
Glueing these targets to backer really helps with tears.

Since I'm changing powders a chronograph would be a simpler "find" for node but i don't have one ... Yet.
 
your groups are great, nice and tight.. when the are this tight one struggles to make sure you are measuring the source of error you want - load variation. versus other possible errors such as aiming point deviation.

for aiming point deviation you might try one like the attached.. the black is the target - red is the crosshair. build your own to give you the amount of white that suits you.. you should be able to cut your aiming error considerably.

by using the intersection as you did, my concern is that the cross hairs covers the mark and you don't know if you are perfectly centered or not.

for those shooting larger groups it's not really a factor... but yours are tight...
 

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Poa is exact when using the Orange intersecting 90°. My scope is set so poi hits 2 clicks above & to the right of poa.
As load increases see poi start going left but stays up 2 clicks.
Farley front, Edgewood rear.
 
For testing at 300, do get a set of wind flags so you will at the very least know what the conditions are doing.

Tail winds and headwinds can cause vertical just like crosswinds can cause horizontal stringing. Right to left conditions tend to drive bullets up and away while left to right drives them down and away.
Knowing how conditions are affecting the bullets flight is paramount.

we see far to many shooters take the time to load up multitudes of different combinations in order to do some type of ladder test with no idea what the bullet is encountering on it’s way to the target.
And while using your flags try to stay within a 2hr window for shooting
 
I hope to be shooting my new Savage soon (weather permitting )just to get the barrel broke in a little and find thes houlder in my chamber.
I don't have a chrono and want to be systematic in finding my powder charge and seating depth.
I saw info regarding shooting a waterline at 300 yards with .010 grain powder changes to see any vwetical flat spots in the different charges and this would be a node.
After this seating depth changes starting at touch and backing out .002 at time to see the effects of the seating changes.
I could be all wet in these assumptions but this is all new to me.
Any guidance here would be a great help.

Thanks, G
Gary you said a very true statement in that you need a systematic approach. Forget water line and chrony for now. First pick the bullet you hope to use at this point. If you have experience with this cartridge pick a powder charge towards the upper end but not at the upper end . Let's say .8 below . Now seat a bullet to a square mark. Shoot a group. If you are a new shooter or not sure about your group shooting make it a 3 shot group. If your pretty confident, I use 2 shot groups to start. Now back up .003 at a time. When you put 3 in a really tight group repeat and see if it does it again. When you reach that point, wether your in the lands or jumping start bumping up your powder at that seating depth .1 grain at a time. When they are what you want, always repeat to be sure it was not a fluke. At this point you can go .001 maybe 2 times both longer and shorter to verify your at the best point. Best way if you can is start this with a batch of loads all seated long and as you shoot at the range back them up into the case as they are needed. Shoot first 2 in a hole, seat anoth and see if it stays in the first 2. Lots of folks like to wear out a barrel finding a load, I say find it with minimal rounds and have lots of barrel left for matches or critters. Hope this helps......it works. Now if your curious of the velocity your rifle shoots, drag out the crony so you can answer the inevitable question, Dude, how fast is it?
 

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