Talk me into a 223 for F/TR!

[Hosted]

I currently have a factory Savage 223 that I had plans to build into an F/TR gun and was going to start ordering parts, but I recently got a pretty good deal on another Savage that has already had time & true, trigger, and stock. This way I can have a varmint and F/TR gun. I want to change the barrel on the new rifle and shoot F/TR but a lot of guys I've talked to are trying to tell me to skip the 223 and just make it a 308. My gut tells me to go with a 7 or 7.5 twist and 28" or 30" barrel and shoot the 80 and attempt the 90gr's but guys around here say I'll have no chance against a 308 at 1000. Most of my shooting will be at 600 yards and a small amount at 1000 this year with possibly more 1000 next year when I get more experience. I've read almost every post on here and other forums regarding this subject and would just like to get some advice from you guys.

 

[XTR]

If you can make the 90VLD work (and that is not guaranteed) then the 223 gives up nothing except recoil to the 308 at 600 yards. Going back to 1000, if you are shooting the 90VLD you are giving up about an inch to the 185s per full value MPH, that is on par with many other 175 class 308 bullets.

Shooting anything else and you're giving up huge windage. For example JBM says the 185 Jugg launched at 2800 has about 7.0 inches per MPH at 1000, the 90VLD at 2750 is drifting 7.8, but something like the 75 AMAX at 3000FPS is way out there at 10.2" That's pretty brutal, it's in the 8 ring on a 1 MPH shift.

 

[Hosted]

Also, how would you suggest the barrel being set up? Am hoping to shoot 80s and 90s out of it if possible. I know did that with your McGowen XTR but wasn't sure if there was a better way to go about it.

 

[XTR]

I'm not sure that my gun will ever shoot the 90s. I went to the range today and shot three simulated matches with 90s and the results were pretty bad. (I use a target cam)

The wind was brutal, switching with intensity changes that were all in all worth a total of about 3MOA (8 ring to 8 ring), but what was more bothersome is the vertical and several flyers. I got off to a great start, took a few sighters and then shot three 10s and an X and was thinking, "Hey, I've got this now". Nope, after 20 shots "for record" it's still not holding much better than 1 MOA and then I got the shot that falls out the bottom to the 8 or high enough to barely hold the 9 ring.

I never intended to go this far down the rabbit hole trying to get this 223 to shoot. If I were doing it for serious I'd order a reamer from PT&G to shoot 90s and I'd get a 30" 1:6.5 from someone. Now it's become a mission. It is really fun to shoot but it needs to hold vertical or it's worthless.

I'm not convinced that the problems may not be in the balance on my rifle and my shooting it, but I don't know. I've never gotten it to shoot consistently well. I've checked the twist and it's definitely a 1:7.

I've gotten 3 and 5 shot groups in tests runs that looked great with a couple of loads, but when I make up 20 or 30 and back it up to 600 it just won't hold.

 

[Scott Harris]

I use the 80 gr A-maxes and love them: need a 1:7.7 or 1:7 twist. Don't recommend the 90 grainers....to finicky. At 1K, the 308 has an edge over the 223. But at 800 and in the 223 is very competitive.

 

[Delaware_Ken]

Good Morning,

I am currently shooting a 7 twist Savage Model 12 F/TR in 223. I never did get the 90's to shoot well with it, but she loves the 80 Grain Berger VLD's and Varget combo. I have shot High Master scores with it at 600 yards, and she will hang with even 308 custom builds at 600.

Last year I had the chance to stretch her out to 800, 900, and 1000 yards. Under very good conditions she did very well at 800, not quite as well at 900, and not very well at 1000. It was my first time shooting those distances so there could have been some operator error in those restults. It did seem like a lot of the 308 shooters were having similar problems too.

Bottom line she uses 1/2 the powder of a 308, virtually no recoil, and she will hang with the 308's under most conditions. What's not to like.

Ken