Switching BR Barrels

[StephenPerry]

Switchng BR Barrels
Since I was a heavy Poster on the other guys Forum I answered this question several times.
Let me say up front switching barrels does not require a torque wrench or a breaker bar. BR barrels threads are cut very precise and only require being set by an action wrench in a good barrel vise. All the pressure is in your 2 hands. Rear entry or side entry makes no difference for an action wrench.

The Barrel
Like I said in one my other Threads I have 25+ BR barrels. Only because I don't prescribe to the shoot and plant method of some. When I have a barrel chambered and threaded I spend some time checking the barrel thread to action thread fit before I ever mate the two. I do something similar each time. When I get the barrel, and a key point here, I only use a couple different smiths so I know their work. First thing I do is I hose down the barrel with brake cleaner. I brush down the threads and check for slivers of stainless that the cutting could have left.
I then take whatever I have dental pick, thin wire, wood stick q-tips, brass or nylon brush, paper towel and I surgically clean my action threads. One thing I never do is place witness marks on my barrel or action. Reason being the first barrel installation the barrel crushes to the conformity it will keep for the life of its set. Shooters trying to match a set of witness marks never get back to that original set. Some try big mistake.

Action
One problem I have seen here is that some smiths set a barrel back too far and the bolt scars the barrel. This can't be good for either. Be careful in the smith you choose. The friendly smith that puts on barrels only occasionally is not the one for you. God forbid your still trying to make a Remington or worse a Mauser action into a BR rig. Only the well traveled smiths will attempt this anymore. And charge more for the trouble.

The Grease
Barrel grease comes in several greasy messes. I have heard some good ones. Motor oil, sex lube, Vaseline, never seize, 90# axle grease. Probably all work but not what I use. I use Pro Gold made by Pro Shot. Several suppliers sell it. A couple jars of this will last your shooting life. I have taken off and put on barrels a 100+ times or more. Probably 95% of the time I used Pro Gold. The other times I used a never seize.
When applying Pro Gold to the barrel I use my finger. The finger depresses and gets the Pro Gold down in the threads. I put it on twice maybe 3 in different locations merging the grease fully around the threads. If I get some on the barrel face I wipe it it off putting it back on the threads. I don't apply a lot of grease only enough to get down into the threads.

The Tools
Now you are ready to complete the deal. Turn stock/action straight up and down. Thread the the barrel till you feel a stop. You should feel the same pressure going all the way down.
I have 2 barrel vises. One is steel with a brass collet that will find it's way down the taper of the barrel until it snugs up. The barrel is placed in the vise collet in place waiting to be snugged up. This vise has 4 massive bolts and screws to keep the barrel from moving as the pressure on the action wrench secure the barrel. Works fine but bulky. The other barrel vise I use is a Davidson. I have had this vise and the Remington action wrench that came with it since 1975. This is the vise that travels to Shoots with me. No toilet paper roll, no rosin, no barrel damage, pure Davidson. Keep a couple of 3/4" box end wrenches with you especially the long handle ones to snug and open the wrench bolts and a couple c-clamps. At Shoots I have never seen a torque wrench being used in changing barrels. A lot of shooters have a Davidson Vise and normally somebody sets one up and the community uses it. And also most use a side action wrench. I have 1 action I use a rear entry wrench for that being my Bubba Wichita. I consider myself stronger than most so a rear entry wrench is not a problem for me. But I like my side entry wrenches better. When taking off a barrel it takes a strong pull to get the release.
When installing a barrel my method is to first give the wrench a firm push using wrist motion then I lean on the wrench till I feel the same pressure each time in my arm. Never checked my setting with a torque wrench so can't say how much. Whatever way I do it it works. I can't say much for other methods but my way is plain and simple. I can take a barrel off clean & grease the threads and have another one on in about 8 minutes. Never a stuck barrel.

So if you have more than 1 barrel for your BR gun buy the right barrel changing equipment once and never again. Barrel changing needs to be done right but needn't be something you lose sleep over.

Stephen Perry

 

[StephenPerry]

Switching Barrels
Anybody try switching barrels since reading my article. How did things go? If you need a pry bar to switch barrels switch smiths.
Stephen Perry

 

[vmthtr]

Steve,
Have multiple barrels for multiple guns. I agree with what you are saying. The only time you really need to lean on the wrench is never. ,if it was assmebled right in the first place) My local smith wants to locktite everythign together all the time. When I asked for a pinned lug and no on the loctite he was sceptical. Showed him the tools you use for switch barrle guns and he understands now. I use the same grease I use on my locking lugs. Put some on my finger and get it down in the grooves of the barrel.

Mike

 

[Caduceus]

Stephen,

I have two switch barrel rifles now but these are relatively new to me. All up, I have done the procedure about a dozen time now and so far, no problems. Thanks for the article, it's good to get some positive reinforcement. I'm using a copper based anti-seize grease.

I use a Davidson vise and Davidson rear entry action wrench. To hold the wrench, I use a 12 inch socket handle that enables me to slide the socket head to the middle of the bar so I can pull up with one hand and push down with the other to get a balanced torque application and not impart any sideways force on the action. I'm aiming for "moderately hand tight".

I also once pulled a Remington factory barrel off an action using a mate's Brownell's Vise and Brownell's action wrench. I'd heard that they could be hard to remove but that's one serious beast of a tool. I'm sure you could lean on it with full body weight and a 6ft breaker bar and that tool wouldn't have let you down. In the end, the action snapped free with relatively little coaxing. Definately overkill for an aftermarket barrel though.

 

[StephenPerry]

Thanks Guys
I enjoyed writing the Thread. Lot of good info in what you guys wrote.
Stephen Perry

 

[AlNyhus]

My method is pretty much the same. I use a Russ Haydon vise c-clamped to a table and wrap an old piece of target material around the barrel where the vise contacts. I use a Kelbly rear entry wrench. It has a small 'kick up' at the rear. One tip I would offer is to make sure it's firmly seated against the lug abuttments before you apply any pressure...just a firm pull rearward does it. Don't let the wrench get 'loose' in the lug abuttments. Thats one reason I prefer a rear entry wrench..so I can get a better feel for it. Just personal preference. -Al

 

[StephenPerry]

Al
Have you tried the barrel vise without the tp roll? Several manufacturers have copied the Davidson vise. I never use anything in the vise except the barrel. If tightened properly the barrel never slips and I don't get any marks on the barrel.
Stephen Perry

 

[M700]

Found out how simple this can be with my highpower rifle, a post '64 Model 70. When I bought it used, it came with several barrels, already threaded, chambered and fitted to the action.

When I finally got around to changing barrels, it took all of a couple of minutes. My buddy the gunsmith has some kind of a big barrel vise, beats me what kind, and an action wrench. That's all it took, just spun the action off the old tube, and screwed in the new one.

I had the fun of setting up the front sight to be straight and level again... Not too bad either, to tell the truth.

Barrel changing seems like such a mystery, until you've done it or seen it done. Thanks for the article! Guy

 

[Forum Boss]

Nice thread Stephen.

I encounter a lot of new shooters who are, let's just say, mechanically shy. Just attaching a bipod can be a big deal. You've done a nice job explaining the basics. As you note, with the right tools, method, and set-up, swapping barrels is something even the "all-thumbs" guys can accomplish.

 

[StephenPerry]

Moderator
I try and write my Threads so the new or learning benchrest shooter can relate. As in any shooting sport we are all learning. What I know comes from my observations, readings, and competition. Before competition endless hours of practice are needed to react to anything that happens during a Shoot. I practice in the rain. I practice in 60 mph Santa Ana winds where I have been the only one on the Range. I want to see it all.
I switch barrels regularly always recording my scope settings. You don't have to be a gunsmith to change barrels. The biggest thing that will take you a long way in benchrest is common sense. Do things for a reason.
Stephen Perry

 

[AlNyhus]

Stephen, most of my barrels are polished and the paper between the barrel and vice is just an added bit of protection. I've spun off unpolished tubes w/o anything between the barrel and vice, but I still like to use a bit of compressable paper,like IBS or NBRSA target material) for better grip.

For those that feel it's needed, you can get a rear entry wrench that has a 1/2" square drive female adapter. You can then torque the barrel down using a good beam or click type torque wrench. -Al

 

[StephenPerry]

I am adding this Thread I wrote on switching barrels to what techshooter was asking in the General Gunsmithing section. It needn't be a chore and does not require a torque wrench. Seneral good responses here.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Thanks Stephen!

 

[StephenPerry]

Techshooter
Experimenting with putting a barrel on a action is fine. But your final outcome should not change the headspace you set your brass up for. Spinning on a barrel by hand is risky at best and headspace should be verified. It is more assuring to attach a barrel with barrel vise. As far as a torque wrench I very seldom have seen one used at a BR Shoot. Most do as I do set their barrels by hand pressure on an action wrench. I first use hand pressure to snug the barrel and then lean heavy on the wrench. Works for me.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Stephen:

Understood. I do all my own smithing, and always check the headspace with a go/nogo gage after any configuration change, including barrel installation torque changes. In this case, on the TubeGun, I could barely detect the presence of the Go gage when torqued to 100 lb-ft, and it felt almost the same at 30 lb-ft. I headspace so that the Go gage just barely kisses the bolt face, as I like to know where it is, not just between the go and nogo tolerances.

Thanks again for your input!

Cheers,

 

[StephenPerry]

Chris
Not knowing you do your own smithing I gave you an approach from a shooter stand point on barrel changing work. I repeat a torque wrench is not necessary to set a barrel. You need to understand I only change BR barrels. I have 25+ barrels and 5 different barrels. I have changed barrels well over a 100 times. I don't use go no-go gauges barrels because I don't chamber the barrels.
Even the barrels made with the same reamer have a different set of brass for each barrel. Each set of brass is fireforned with its own set of brass.
Curious why do you feel you need to set a barrel with 100 lb of torque. But you are willing to use hand pressure on an action wrench in the field. Why not use hand pressure on an action wrench in the shop. If your machine work in your shop is good you don't need 100 lb of torque. Chris you sound good at what you do in chambering barrels. Just an observation from somone who knows good barrel work.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Stephen:

No issues with your post, I was just clarifying.

I don't use 100 lb-ft in the shop anymore, only about 30. I did experiment with the headspace variation as a function of barrel torque, and found little if any variation. I only use a rear entry action wrench, a 1/2" socket handle, a 7/8" socket, and a barrel vise. Tighten by feel, to about 30 lb-ft. Snug, but not moosed. Being an engineer, I "calibrated" this "snug" with the torque wrench, so I am relatively confident that it is usually in the 30 lb-ft range.

I will say that my first barrel installs were torqued to 100 lb-ft, but after reading and discussing, I am down to the 30 range. Factory barrels seem to be at least 100 lb-ft, so I was initially starting at that level. I am learning, and this has been very educational. I feel confident that I am doing a good job on the fitting/chambering, based on measured results,chamber runout, headspace tolerances, thread fit, etc.), and the results with the rifles in the field. Check out my web site through the link below for some pictures and results of some of my projects.

This whole thread was initiated by my curiosity and wonder about what others might have done in terms of measuring any correlations of accuracy results with barrel torque, as I am setting up my newest rifle as a switch barrel rig, and wanted to change barrels in the field,my first try at this). My conclusion is that if the barrel is fitted correctly, it almost doesn't matter as long as it is not loose.

I appreciate your advise!

Cheers,

 

[StephenPerry]

Chris
Your's is a first class website. I am always amazed how guys like you and Paul have put so much into websites. If you haven't already checked I am Shoot Director for San Gabriel Valley Bencherest Shooters www.sgbenchrest.com and you can see our BR School in 6mmBR in Article Archives under 'Benchrest School'. We are soon to become Southern California Benchrest Shooters shooting at Angeles Range.
Stephen Perry

 

[techshooter]

Thanks, Stephen!

Looks like a great organization, and lots of nice folks.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[StephenPerry]

Shooters
Like to hear from anyone who has changed barrels lately using the techniques myself and others have presented. Remember keep the vise extra tight and forget the cylinder head torque wrench. Trust your hands on this one. Read my Thread and the Posts from others. Gettur Dun.
Stephen Perry