Swage press to tighten primer pockets
- Thread starter DanConzo
- Start date
Tell me if i got this right. You put this tool in just like a die and the empty brass goes in the shell holder and when you work the press it pushes the brass in the piece in the drawing and squezes the base of the brass enough to make the primer pockets tighter. I shoot a 7mm ultra mag and the brass is junk, this tool if it works would be great. And the people that talk about the Heart tool , dont waste your money on that POS. I called the Heart people after mine was mushromed till it wouldnt work any more. I told them i would buy another one if they would tell me what material it was made of so i could get it heat treated. They told me it was to get another loading or maybe 2 out of your brass, if i was hitting it hard enough to flare it that was not the intent of the tool. They never would tell what type of steel it was. It became obvious it was designed to part you from your money, no one makes tools that have to be struck with out heat treating them.
[br]ebb said:
Apparently, at least one does.
Hi all , Sorry i no longer do jobs for others , i'm retired , added to this i live in Northern Australia and sending gun related components to the US from here is a very big deal with the Gov't .. Some years back a well known gunsmith over your way was going to make & sell these and pay me some sort of royalty , but it did not happen because he's busier that a one legged man in a butt kickin comp.. Maybe some enterprising machinist over your way can make em & sell em .. JR.. Jeff Rogers.. Ebb and others have a look at the 1st pic and you will see the pushrod to allow the case to be swagged through the die , it goes into the shell holder..
jsn
Gold $$ Contributor
It appears that you have a taper going through 3/4's of the orifice length--does it really need to be that long? How polished does the orifice surface need to be?
Could someone just modify a Lee bullet sizing die? Or get a custom size made (not sure if they can handle a taper). I doubt if they are a high end steel, and are probably not heat treated.
Lee came up with the 40S&W Glock bulge remover from the same principle--just size it through the same type of die, just tighter to swage the case base. I suppose with the extractor groove and the rim you're really just swaging the bottom of the primer pocket, not it's entire length.
Thoughts?!?!?
Could someone just modify a Lee bullet sizing die? Or get a custom size made (not sure if they can handle a taper). I doubt if they are a high end steel, and are probably not heat treated.
Lee came up with the 40S&W Glock bulge remover from the same principle--just size it through the same type of die, just tighter to swage the case base. I suppose with the extractor groove and the rim you're really just swaging the bottom of the primer pocket, not it's entire length.
Thoughts?!?!?
aJR--What problems would be encountered with your set-up for rebated cases where the body is bigger than the head like the 284 Win and the Rem Ultra cases could this set-up work with those cases? Or would the cases have to be the same size or smaller at the bottom of the case just before the extractor groove as the head?
Dan,
I've enlarged the picture of Jeff's press mounted primer pocket "reclaim" die. The shape of the ram is the most important detail, and that is not shown. This looks like a good idea on paper, and Jeff says that it works for him. I can see how it can work - if the ram tip imprints a ring that swages brass inward, just like the Hart tool (only no hammer required).
Due to variable case taper, diameter, brass hardness and thickness - I still think the Hart forming tool is the best solution at this time. However, I agree with "ebb" that the tip of their forming tool should be properly hardened to retain its shape.
I believe that such a tool can be made using the best features from both of these tools. The use of a hammer should definitely be eliminated. However, an inside anvil should be used to firmly position the case. If some genius out there wants to email me a complete drawing of some practical idea, I'll look it over. I might just make a similar item available to fellow shooters. Of course, one important requirement is affordability. (That's an important detail.)
Take a look at my website www.larrywillis.com and you'll see some of my ideas. I can sometimes design new products quickly, and make them available to shooters. However, the design needs to be 100% effective, and it must be affordable to produce in quantity. The problem of producing top quality products AND making it affordable has almost killed manufacturing in the U.S.
- Larry Willis
I've enlarged the picture of Jeff's press mounted primer pocket "reclaim" die. The shape of the ram is the most important detail, and that is not shown. This looks like a good idea on paper, and Jeff says that it works for him. I can see how it can work - if the ram tip imprints a ring that swages brass inward, just like the Hart tool (only no hammer required).
Due to variable case taper, diameter, brass hardness and thickness - I still think the Hart forming tool is the best solution at this time. However, I agree with "ebb" that the tip of their forming tool should be properly hardened to retain its shape.
I believe that such a tool can be made using the best features from both of these tools. The use of a hammer should definitely be eliminated. However, an inside anvil should be used to firmly position the case. If some genius out there wants to email me a complete drawing of some practical idea, I'll look it over. I might just make a similar item available to fellow shooters. Of course, one important requirement is affordability. (That's an important detail.)
Take a look at my website www.larrywillis.com and you'll see some of my ideas. I can sometimes design new products quickly, and make them available to shooters. However, the design needs to be 100% effective, and it must be affordable to produce in quantity. The problem of producing top quality products AND making it affordable has almost killed manufacturing in the U.S.
- Larry Willis
Hi Dan ,The die i use is useless to a rebated rim because the restricted section .5285 has to be able to contact(swage) the brass right where to primer sits .. On my 78.5 gn load in the bartlien the case head at the belt (300 wm mag case) will grow to .5315 approx upon each firing .. The die for this is .5285 , i lube the belt with Redding die wax and push the cases through with the pushrod (simply a piece of half inch steel with a grove for the shell holder).. Case head size is now .5290 approx and the primer pocket is sized enough to hold that said primer .. I make these dies from 431 Stainless as threads well and does not require any more heat treating .. This is not rocket science fellas , any one with a simple lathe and a piece of steel can make one .. I had a 6mm based on a 6.5x55 swe case that would swell the pockets and a smaller die worked on this case but not quite as good ..JR..Jeff Rogers ..ps i have in conjunction with the other dies i employ gotten over 20 reloads with these warm loads
Jeff,
Your die is interesting. Measure the diameter of your 300 Win Mag cases (just above the belt) using the wide part of your calipers. Even if they are all fired from the same rifle, you will find a variety of dimensions. The inside diameter of your die is 12.7mm (that's .500")
What caliber does that die work on?
What part of the case stops its forward movement when your ram contacts the case?
Is the ID of your die tapered?
Your die is interesting. Measure the diameter of your 300 Win Mag cases (just above the belt) using the wide part of your calipers. Even if they are all fired from the same rifle, you will find a variety of dimensions. The inside diameter of your die is 12.7mm (that's .500")
What caliber does that die work on?
What part of the case stops its forward movement when your ram contacts the case?
Is the ID of your die tapered?
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
His name is : Van Vick out of Houston TX
I will list his website, but it's apparently down.
Website: http://www.primer-pocket-fixer.com/
His name on the Forum is: Fixer
I will list his website, but it's apparently down.
Website: http://www.primer-pocket-fixer.com/
His name on the Forum is: Fixer
DennisH
Life Time NRA member
http://forum.accurateshooter.com/index.php?topic=3777609.0
Here is his post, not let's try to find him and see if he is still making the tool!
Here is his post, not let's try to find him and see if he is still making the tool!
Hi Inno, Your not reading the drawing right ,The reduced section is 12.7mm ( approx .500) long and at 13.373mm or .5265 in diameter .. we made the id in the drawing this size as it is the smallest you will ever need on a belted case and you can just hone it to whatever you want .. This has very little to do with the web area like in your tool and i use a different die for that purpose..JR
aJR ........
What does the top of your ram look like? And how does it compress the diameter of the primer pocket? Do you have any larger pictures?
What does the top of your ram look like? And how does it compress the diameter of the primer pocket? Do you have any larger pictures?
Unless I'm missing something, it looks like a standard ring die/small base die to me(such as RCBS and others offer), with extended shellholder.
These are not known to solve this problem. They are merely to get a couple more firings from pressure trashed brass that no longer chambers.
Hate to be a pessimist, but there needs to be pocket reforming -rather than web sizing.
These are not known to solve this problem. They are merely to get a couple more firings from pressure trashed brass that no longer chambers.
Hate to be a pessimist, but there needs to be pocket reforming -rather than web sizing.
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