Suppressors and short barreled hunting rifles

[jhsjhs]

Hi Folks,

I recently started hunting in an area that is not long-gun friendly, and using suppressors for first time. It turns out bring a 26" rifle with 7" suppressor into a small deer blind is not optimal. As a result I am thinking about getting a much shorter rifle. Ideally, I would like an 18" barrel, which combined with the suppressor should be ok to work with My question is the cartridge. From what I have been able to find online (random posts, and one recent podcast from the people at Gunwerks) it seems that there is a limit as to the possible powder charge you would want with an 18" barrel--probably no 28 nosler or 300RUM. The velocities for bigger cartridges fall off pretty sharply at some point This is less the case for smaller cartridges.

So, one general question and one specific. The general is does the fact that the rifle will always be suppressed matter--effectively, would an 18" rifle plus 7" suppressor be thought of differently for this then just an 18" rifle. I guess I am assuming not, that you want the powder burn to take place before the bullet is in the suppressor to keep it clean if nothing else, but am not sure.

And last, if anyone has experience around this and can suggest a cartridge, thanks. 308 seems a safe bet, but I wouldn't mind a bit more power, so maybe 6.5PRC or something similar to its velocity/powder charge.

Thanks,

Jim.

 

[justpassinthru]

You didn't mention the maximum distance you will be shooting but please don't underestimate the 6.5 Grendel.

 

[jhsjhs]

Next year probably 400 yards. With luck that could go up in future years which is why I am thinking about stouter cartridges then 308, but if that doesn’t happen so be it. I will take a look at 6.5 Grendel, thanks.

 

[Just Say Moe]

I would go with any 308 or x57 based round. Your choice, but I would lean 7mm. I would base it on what dies/brass/bullets I already have on hand.

What supressor are you looking at?

 

[Doug Beach]

I’m trying to envision a deer that needs something bigger than a .308.

 

[jhsjhs]

I have two tbac 7”, one for 6.5 and one .30. The .308 would be enough for where I just was (Georgia deer) but i wouldn’t mind making something that could do more.

 

[rockrat]

Why not the 243win, 260 Rem or 7mm/08?

 

[STOMP442]

In my opinion anything over a 308 sized case will just be wasting powder and potential on such a short barrel. Why build a hotrod 6.5 like the PRC just to cut its nuts off at 18" and have Creedmoor performance at best. 400 yards is not far and deer are not hard to kill. Just about anything behind the shoulder will work.

 

[DangerRanger]

So, one general question and one specific. The general is does the fact that the rifle will always be suppressed matter--effectively, would an 18" rifle plus 7" suppressor be thought of differently for this then just an 18" rifle. I guess I am assuming not, that you want the powder burn to take place before the bullet is in the suppressor to keep it clean if nothing else, but am not sure.

And last, if anyone has experience around this and can suggest a cartridge, thanks. 308 seems a safe bet, but I wouldn't mind a bit more power, so maybe 6.5PRC or something similar to its velocity/powder charge.

Thanks,

Jim.

1. Don’t really understand the question. Should it be considered when building a rifle? Yes, I think so. It matters for balance, overall weight, and barrel contour, especially muzzle diameter if you’ll be suppressing it vs not.

2. You want a full time supressed 400 yard hunting cartridge correct?

for this application I’d do a 6.5 mm on a short magnum sized case or less. 260/6.5CM/6.5x47 whatever. Prc would be fine too if you want it.

I use a 20” 6.5cm supressed and a 21” 300prc supressed and enjoy both of them very much. When I rebarrel the CM it will likely be an 18” as I’d imagine I can get the speeds the same-ish as my 20” with a factory barrel.

Having said that if you want an 18” magnum do it. I think the whole “you might as well be shooting a 308” thing with larger cartridges misses the point of supressed hunting rifles. You’re going to have an 18” barrel either way. More powder is going to produce more velocity. Comparing it to a 26” 308 is pointless, as that’s not in the realm of considerations for the rifle at hand. I’m pretty easily getting 28xx with a 215 in my prc, can I easily get that in a 21” 308? Doubt it.

Barrel length you want...velocity needed for your application with the bullet you would like to shoot....powder capacity to drive it that fast

 

[dellet]

The biggest part of the equation is not so much barrel length, but muzzle pressure. Different suppressors are rated for different pressures. Being mindful of what the limitations are, may help make the decision based on velocity you can reach at a given length and cartridge. Powder choice can change muzzle pressure significantly.

Remember that most of these ratings are also taking into consideration rapid fire

Example for Thunder Beast ultra series, I think there are a couple choices there that should be able to reach out to 400 yards or so with an 18" barrel..

APPLICATION NOTES​

Minimum barrel lengths2:

6"	.300 Blackout (subsonic)
8"	.300 Blackout (full power)
10"	6.8 SPC, 7.62x39
11.5"	223 Rem, 5.56, 6.5 Grendel
14.5"	.308 Win
16"	.260 REM, 6.5 Creedmoor, .243 WIN
18"	7mm RM, 7mm WSM, .300 WIN MAG, .300 WSM, .22 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC, 6.5 SAUM, 7 SAUM
20"	7mm RUM, .300 RUM, .300 PRC
22"	.300 Norma Magnum, 28 Nosler, 7 STW
23"	26 Nosler, 6.5-300 Weatherby

Please contact tech support for:
7mm cal loads exceeding 90 powder grains,
.30 cal loads exceeding 100 powder grains
For questions about a particular rifle/load combination please contact us.
* SBR use in these calibers, CB brake mount or Direct Thread recommended.

Please note that thermal input will be higher with shorter barrels. Ultra series suppressors should be kept under 800 degrees F.
1. Measured in accordance with MIL-STD-1474E using a BK PULSE SLM with mics at specified locations
Note on dB ratings
We now specify the dB rating as a single number for the specified weapon-ammo configuration due to the long-term consistency of the B&K PULSE system. The numbers for the milspec-left/right mic position are very consistent. "Shooter's ear" (SE) numbers are a little more variable and should be considered with a margin of +/- 2 dB. These should be considered the "reference" numbers compared to anything published previously -- please see our youtube video
We report dB as dB(A), ie, with A-weighting, due to MIL-STD-1474E specifying using either A or C weighting.
2. Max loads / min bbl lengths rated with CB Brake or direct thread
[ click here to see more photos of this ]

Specifications​

Calibers	.30 caliber, up to .300 RUM 6.5 mm caliber, up to 6.5 mm / .264" caliber
Material	Titanium
Length	7 inches
Diameter	1.5 inches
Mounts	CB series brake or flash hider, and Direct Thread
Weight	8.0 ounces (CB mount) 9.8 ounces (direct thread)
Threads (Brake or Direct Thread)	1/2-28*, 5/8-24, 9/16-24, 3/4-24, 3/4-28, M18x1.0, M18x1.5 * Note: The 1/2-28 brake has part number 223CB-BRK:1/2-28 and has a .223 caliber aperture!
Finish	Black CeraKote; OD Green or FDE available
Brake Material	Heat-treated 17-4 stainless
Brake Finish	Ionbond DLC
Use	Precision/Long-range rifle, bolt or semi-auto
Price	$1045 Direct Thread $1095 CB Mount (one brake included). Extra brakes $125/ea "CB" External thread protector, $35 (not included - sold separately)
Warranty	TBAC Limited Lifetime Warranty
How to order a suppressor

​

 

[jhsjhs]

Thanks, I had forgotten that table existed. That helps.

 

[X-Caveman]

30BR! I've had 18" .308 in the past. I currently own a 20" 6.5x47 that I shoot suppressed and a 22" 6.5x47 with a brake. The 30BR suppressed is by far the most fun, and with a case full of 4198 you don't loose much velocity over say about a 22" barrel. It will push a 125TNT 2,860 which is more than enough for any deer I'll ever see. It's quiet, doesn't kick much, and is super handy. 400 is a bit of a stretch on game, but I can hit a 10" swinger at 400 with a 6 power scope holding over every time. Plus, you'll be the only guy at deer camp with a 30BR - just don't forget your ammo!

 

[El Matador]

I would build a 7mm-08 for a suppressed 400 yard deer gun. Or if you want a bit more power maybe a 280 AI. 308 and 300 WSM would also be considerations if you ever wanted to go after larger game. I think the main thing with short barrels is just to pick an efficient cartridge so you don't get a huge fireball at the muzzle. That can cause excess turbulence and affect accuracy in some cases. Smaller calibers require more barrel length to be efficient, so I'd shy away from 6.5s, .257s, or .243s. That 7mm-08 with 120-140 grain bullets would be about perfect for deer out to 500 yards.

 

[DirtySteve]

I have a short barreled 300 WSM and a can.... Do not build something with large case capacity and a short barrel.. I regret my decision and I bet you will too if you build one. Just my opinion looking back on the project. It shoots great thought.. 210 gr bullet at 2640 fps.. My long barreled 308 does 2925 with a 175...

 

[jhsjhs]

I have a short barreled 300 WSM and a can.... Do not build something with large case capacity and a short barrel.. I regret my decision and I bet you will too if you build one. Just my opinion looking back on the project. It shoots great thought.. 210 gr bullet at 2640 fps.. My long barreled 308 does 2925 with a 175...

Can you tell me why? I appreciate the experience. Thanks.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I run a bunch of XP-100s in rifle cartridges. Barrels from 13"-18". I run a can on some of them too. The case with the most powder I have is a 300RUM shooting 230's at 2800fps from an 18" krieger. Shot a pile of 180s in a 17" 7mm Dakota. Wore out a few barrels with that combo. Don't let people without EXPERIENCE tell you that its a waste to put a bigger cartridge in a short barrel. They are just parroting what they've read or heard. One thing to consider when you go to a shorter barrel is that you will loose some speed. Run numbers with whatever bullet you want to shoot and figure out how far it will open up on game. Most bullets have a 1800fps minimum. Some are supposed to open up lower.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

I have a short barreled 300 WSM and a can.... Do not build something with large case capacity and a short barrel.. I regret my decision and I bet you will too if you build one. Just my opinion looking back on the project. It shoots great thought.. 210 gr bullet at 2640 fps.. My long barreled 308 does 2925 with a 175...

Whats your 300 do with 175s or the 308 with 210s? Not exactly an apples to apples comparison to compare 175s to 210s

 

[DirtySteve]

Well the 308 shooting flatter is a start (comparing the long 308 vs the short 300 WSM). The 300WSM burns more powder and produces more recoil and is not as flat shooting as a long barreled 308. A short barreled 308 will give up some velocity but has mild recoil. A lot of unburnt powder will result from using a 300 WSM in a short barrel and could accumulate in the suppressor. Not a good thing to occur. Why stuff a bunch of hard to find powder in a case and get nothing in return? Comparing the two cartridges the 308 is more efficient if you are wanting to shoot suppressed. The suggestion Field & Cave made about the 30 BR I would seriously consider. I believe it would probably be the best choice. But if you want to shoot something you can find in a store, the the 308 or even 7-08..

 

[DirtySteve]

Whats your 300 do with 175s or the 308 with 210s? Not exactly an apples to apples comparison to compare 175s to 210s

A lot of guys can push 200 gr 308 Win to 2400 fps... Is that a better comparison? I don't hotrod my ammo so I was giving the best comparison I could based on what I shoot. It takes 60 grs of H4350 to get 2640 from the 300 WSM. And about 43gr of Varget to get 2600 fps from a 26" 308... That is a huge difference in powder consumption. Not to mention the added barrel wear from burning that much powder.

 

[rickiesrevenge]

Performance does come at a cost. But in your example, 308 200's @2400 compared to a 210 @2640 the 308 cannot possibly shoot flatter or deliver more energy to the target. Am I saying that you NEED a WSM? No, but to say that its wasted in short barrel is total BS even based on your anecdotal evidence.

I haven't had any build up in my can with a 17" 7mm Dakota burning 76gr of retumbo. Haven't put it on the RUM yet since I haven't built the brake/mount for the can.