Suppressor for F-Open Class

[Warren Dean]

I’m certainly not whining, but I don’t think you were referring to me. I know I have a disadvantage in the F open class trying to compete on a budget, but I also realize that my goal every time I go out is to beat my personal best; not to beat the guys that have 20+ years of additional experience and unlimited funds

You are correct. My comments were aimed at a general attitude among some people that seems to be common these days. If having a good time and improving your skills is your goal, then by all means have at it. I'll warn you, though....it is addictive and there is no cure except burnout.

F Class has evolved into a specialized discipline and it is shot internationally under common rules. Mucking about with the rules to be more "inclusive" is a fool's errand.

Suppressors aren't all that and a bag of chips, either. Like Mike said, those things hold heat forever. My "mile gun" wears a Yankee Hill Phantom and it and the barrel stay hot for a very long time even after only 10 or 15 rounds. Mirage is bad enough naturally without dealing with a suppressor creating it's own and cooking your barrel.

Like I said, if someone wants to shoot pseudo-F Class, let them make up their own discipline and have a ball. Who knows, maybe it will catch on. F-Tactical seems to be catching on in some parts of the country, especially ranges that only have 600 yards or less.

 

[skiutah02]

@KY_Windage makes some excellent points that I agree with. Others also make very good points with respect to FClass wrt suppressors, but for individual suppressors besides the Banish 30, I cannot agree or disagree on since I only own the Banish 30 and have used it only recently.

What I can comment on, is that the Banish 30 is phenomenal. I've used it on my 308, my 223Rem, 22LR, 300BO, 6.5x47 and 6BRX. Works excellent in all those calibers and with subsonic loads in 223, 22LR and 300BO it is movie quiet. I bought mine (Banish 30) because the company is relatively local (I like supporting local companies when I can), their product is awesome, and they made the acquisition effortless. Received mine in Oct after about 180 day wait start to finish. I am just a satisfied customer, with no affilliation with Dakota Silencer.

The heat/weight/tuner quality of the suppressor really make it less that ideal for string fire in the US, largely off-setting its advantage of easier shooting and easier on the ears, IMHO. Maintaining the level of accuracy necessary to be top-notch in FOpen/FTR, seems like it would be very challenging using one, although I will have better data after this summer.

But for your purposes, @Dave M. helping your 11-yo enjoy his time amongst World class talent, I say go for it if it helps keep him on the line.

Drew

 

[Dave M.]

@KY_Windage makes some excellent points that I agree with. Others also make very good points with respect to FClass wrt suppressors, but for individual suppressors besides the Banish 30, I cannot agree or disagree on since I only own the Banish 30 and have used it only recently.

What I can comment on, is that the Banish 30 is phenomenal. I've used it on my 308, my 223Rem, 22LR, 300BO, 6.5x47 and 6BRX. Works excellent in all those calibers and with subsonic loads in 223, 22LR and 300BO it is movie quiet. I bought mine (Banish 30) because the company is relatively local (I like supporting local companies when I can), their product is awesome, and they made the acquisition effortless. Received mine in Oct after about 180 day wait start to finish. I am just a satisfied customer, with no affilliation with Dakota Silencer.

The heat/weight/tuner quality of the suppressor really make it less that ideal for string fire in the US, largely off-setting its advantage of easier shooting and easier on the ears, IMHO. Maintaining the level of accuracy necessary to be top-notch in FOpen/FTR, seems like it would be very challenging using one, although I will have better data after this summer.

But for your purposes, @Dave M. helping your 11-yo enjoy his time amongst World class talent, I say go for it if it helps keep him on the line.

Drew

We both wear double ear plugs but some other guys shooting higher power stuff can be troublesome at times; but we can’t control what others do on the line.

thanks
Dave

 

[KY_Windage]

What I can comment on, is that the Banish 30 is phenomenal. I've used it on my 308, my 223Rem, 22LR, 300BO, 6.5x47 and 6BRX. Works excellent in all those calibers and with subsonic loads in 223, 22LR and 300BO it is movie quiet.

When they first came out Dakota sold replacement end-caps for them, and you could order any size you wanted. That made a 30 suppress a 223 nearly as well as a 223 suppressor will. However, one of the big makers of sealed cans whined to ATF, who decided, yeah, that was "selling suppressor parts" so there needed to be a STAMP for any such. Dakota did not tell me who it was but I'm sure it was the same one that has worked so hard for years spreading lies about user-serviceable suppressors (like that they are less accurate).

I thot about have a machine shop just make me an end-cap or two with smaller holes but decided it was nor worth the hassle, and esp. if some jackass called ATF on me. I think it is a stupid ruling but don't want to have to explain it all to the local Federal Magistrate.

My 30-cal suppressor does a great job of suppressing .223 or .204. A properly sized end-cap hole would only make a slight difference. My 7" 223 Banish is slightly more quiet than my 30 Banish shooting the same loads in the same rifle, but if I screw the 2" extension on the 30 then it is just as quiet as the Banish 22.

 

[cdgaydos]

Dead Air Nomad 30 or Nomad 30L... or Sandman series.

or Thunder Beast.

Q would be on my short list as well.

 

[effendude]

Thuinder Beast Ultra7 is a great all around can. I've had one for several years now and use it on everything from .22 rimfires up through my Ultra Mags. TB cans are the toughest on the market really work well. I also have a couple 338 Ultras I use on high volume AR's for prairie dogs as well as my 300 NMI and 338's. If you don't mind the weight or length, the Ultra 9 is the best 30 cal can out there
Scott

 

[Dave M.]

sooooo @Dave M. this is not a small community, The anti gun folks are on here, So are a lot of other people. Google indexes you almost instantly and forever. So do spiders from china and Russia and all over. You might be ok with Chicoms having your number?

Google Search

now i am not a tinfoil hat kinda guy but you will notice no one puts their number out here. You might also get spam calls since the same bots that crawl the web looking for email address also look for phone numbers blah blah blah....

if you feel driven to give our your number in public then i suggest you get a disposable number from lets say google voice or grasshopper or some other service. Then if you get to much bs you can just roate the number and move on. The interwebs are a scary place just tryin to keep ya safe

Point taken and thanks for the advice. Clearly, I’m too trusting with folks on this forum because of how much help I’ve been given from them. Seems like a great small tight knit community of very helpful folks; but no doubt you are right when you say there are likely people with less than honest intentions on this site. I will take what you have said to heart and consider more carefully before handing out my number next time.

Dave.

 

[JayBeeYou]

When they first came out Dakota sold replacement end-caps for them, and you could order any size you wanted. That made a 30 suppress a 223 nearly as well as a 223 suppressor will. However, one of the big makers of sealed cans whined to ATF, who decided, yeah, that was "selling suppressor parts" so there needed to be a STAMP for any such. Dakota did not tell me who it was but I'm sure it was the same one that has worked so hard for years spreading lies about user-serviceable suppressors (like that they are less accurate).

I thot about have a machine shop just make me an end-cap or two with smaller holes but decided it was nor worth the hassle, and esp. if some jackass called ATF on me. I think it is a stupid ruling but don't want to have to explain it all to the local Federal Magistrate.

Endcaps are available from many of the suppressor manufacturers. I can buy online flashider, different calibers, and even muzzle brake style endcaps for my Deadair Sandman.

And to add to the thread, I shot a 308 with 155 scenars and a healthy dose of varget suppressed in a match for fun. The heat was impressive in a not so good way, and would not cool down near as fast as normal. It was at the end of that barrels life anyways so I didn't really care. I would not take a barrel in its prime out and do it again, I would imagine barrel life would be significantly effected.

 

[Dave M.]

Endcaps are available from many of the suppressor manufacturers. I can buy online flashider, different calibers, and even muzzle brake style endcaps for my Deadair Sandman.

And to add to the thread, I shot a 308 with 155 scenars and a healthy dose of varget suppressed in a match for fun. The heat was impressive in a not so good way, and would not cool down near as fast as normal. It was at the end of that barrels life anyways so I didn't really care. I would not take a barrel in its prime out and do it again, I would imagine barrel life would be significantly effected.

So much great info here guys. Thanks a million. Sounds like using for F class is out, but it would sure make shooting at the farm for my son and I more enjoyable. Why do I see the ELR (1500 yards +) guys running cans on their rigs? Is it strictly for recoil reduction??

dave

 

[spclark]

Why do I see the ELR (1500 yards +) guys running cans on their rigs? Is it strictly for recoil reduction?

I had the same thing in mind earlier in this thread, and to add yet another ? maybe some can elaborate on the barrel life effect that’s been getting some attention:

Are suppressors / silencers also effective compensators?

Do they (any of those three) tend to reduce accurate barrel life?

 

[Dave M.]

I had the same thing in mind earlier in this thread, and to add yet another ? maybe some can elaborate on the barrel life effect that’s been getting some attention:

Are suppressors / silencers also effective compensators?

Do they (any of those three) tend to reduce accurate barrel life?

That is exactly my thought as well. If they hold in so much heat, it can’t be good for the barrel.

 

[Warren Dean]

No, the barrel heat is not good for the gun. But the retina detaching cartridges the ELR guys shoot need something to tame the recoil. I run a suppressor on my 300 Winchester Magnum mile gun chucking 230s at 2900+ fps and there is no way I would shoot it without a suppressor. The recoil is similar to a 308 with 155s.

 

[sawcarver]

For general recoil reduction a brake does wonders amd a lot cheaper than a can. @Dave M. Ive got lots of brakes on specialty pistols, we are close enough you could come shoot a 7-300 win mag pistol it doesnt move much when its shot with the brake. Spin the brake on for banging steel and take it off for matches.

 

[ED3]

In New Zealand, surpressors are not only "legal" for FTR and F-Open, they are encouraged. A few, mainly FTR shooters use them. We have no specific law around their purchase/use , so very common amongst hunters and a healthy local industry has produced so excellent devices. It may be time for the NRA to have a look at their regulations - can anyone suggest why surpressor use is a bad thing?

I cannot suggest why suppressor use is a bad thing. I can tell you that, because they are not legal in all 50 states, they are not allowed for NRA competitions

 

[EOD Rob]

Thanks. I’ll look into that one

I have a Hybrid 46 and a Harvester 30. Both are great suppressors. I use the Hybrid for guns I put a lot of rounds through (AR/AK/Semi autos). I only use the Harvester for my bolt/Hunting guns. The Hybrid would work just as well with the bolt/hunting guns, but it is a beast and pretty heavy. The Harvester is nice and light, but would never punish it like the Hybrid.
I will say, if you want to buy one suppressor that will fit on anything you have, short of a 50 BMG and rimfire, Hybrid is the way to go! Pistols too!!!!

 

[KY_Windage]

For general recoil reduction a brake does wonders amd a lot cheaper than a can. @Dave M. Ive got lots of brakes on specialty pistols, we are close enough you could come shoot a 7-300 win mag pistol it doesnt move much when its shot with the brake. Spin the brake on for banging steel and take it off for matches.

I agree, more recoil reduction and way cheaper. There are, however, situations where I want to be suppressed -- P-dog shooting inside 400 yards comes to mind, where one unsuppressed shot will make every dog dive into its hole for 45 minutes.

Rob makes the great point that you need to look for a can that fills your needs. Being full-auto rated makes them very heavy, and I will never need that. But I do go deer hunting with a can at times, so what is important to me is that the can be light. The Hybrid46 has incredible versatility(up to .45 ACP), but I don't ever want to run a can on a pistol -- just rifles, and with a .45 hole in the end cap I would not be suppressing the noise as well as my 30-cal can does.

People come into this and other forums and say things like, "the Thunderbeast is the best there is." Really? In what way? All cans are just a pipe you shoot bullets through, with some internal baffles. The bullets do not even touch anything. Where is the rocket-science in that?

Yes, welded cans are stronger that take-apart cans, but while I have heard of a lot of other brands blowing up (including one that suprised me -- last year's YHM, because they are so stout), I have never heard of one of the very lightweight Banish 30's blowing up (a mere 10 oz. in its 7" configuration). Other than "ka-BOOMing" from internal pressure, it seems to me the only thing you really need to worry about with a can is impact or weight that bends the mounted can out of alignment with the bore, 'cuz you ain't gonna just bend it back. I don't see having welded baffles is going to make a can any more resistant to that kind of damage than a break-down can like mine.

I love the fact that I can run my Banish 30 as a 10 oz, 7" can, or as a 13 oz, 9" can. I may not ever need to replace a baffle, but I take advantage of the 7" / 9" option all the time.

But, just because it is the best can for me does not mean it is best for you. You have to figure out which attributes are most important to you, for your uses, and then find the can that best meets those needs.

 

[KY_Windage]

That is exactly my thought as well. If they hold in so much heat, it can’t be good for the barrel.

A lot of guys couldn't care less what is happening to their barrel -- they just like to throw a lot of lead downrange at a fast rate.

But most people in this forum are very concerned about accuracy and barrel-life. You can have a lot of fun shooting suppressed, but I came to the conclusion that trying to shoot 20 rounds for score plus sighters in a 22-minute F-Class match just was not going to work. Even if it was not shortening the life of the barrel, it causing mirage and POI-shift near the end from the hot barrel.

 

[Sandstorm]

it causing mirage and POI-shift near the end from the hot barrel.

Thank you Sir....at @ 1000 yds....not optimum.

 

[Joseph Jones ctsr]

I run our titanium PRS brake mount cans on my precision rifles. I just shot my first 1000yds tactical class this past weekend with my 6.5-284 running our PRS65 suppressor on my steel banging rifle and managed this out of 24 shooters. Thunder Valley Precision now stocks our suppressors and we also sell direct. We always keep the PRS and PRSBB suppressors in stock.

 

[22DASHER]

If you want a take apart centerfire can then just build your own on a Form 1 and save hundreds of dollars.