I am in the process of a new rifle and have a ton of questions. Here's what I have and here's what I want to do with it. Have a Savage target action RBLP with 308 bolt face. Primarily would be used for ground hogs at any distance. Possibly be used for ground hog paper shoots here in Pa. I was considering a 243 with heavy 105 and up bullets or 6mm br. I won't be rapid firing or running thousand plus rounds a year through the rifle. For 243 which barrel would you suggest twist, bore, groove & length? Stock recomendations, I don't have a problem finishing or bedding a laminate. After market triggers? Sopce base and rings 20 moa base? And scopes I would like to stay under $800. Also rests I usely shoot off of sand bags. The weight of the rifle won't matter gun wont go far from the truck when hog hunting I usually just set up and watch. Thanks
Suggestions for a build
- Thread starter 221 FIREBALL
- Start date
If your use is going to be for primary varmint shooting and every once in a while for punching paper I suggest you build a 6BR on a 28" 12tw barrel. You'll be amazed at just how accurately you'll be able to shoot 75gr Vmax's out to 600yds and if you need something slightly heavier you can go to 80gr & 88gr Bergers. I own three 6br's a 14, 12 & a 8tw my 12tw gets the most work. EGW 20moa base & TPS aluminum rings or Burris Signature Z rings. I hope that you were saying that you want to stay under $800.00 on just the cost of the scope and not the complete rifle. As a after market barrel is going to cost you about 350.00 for a pre-fit. Jim Briggs at Northland Shooters Supply has reasonable prices and carries most of what you need for a Savage build.
Good luck with your build
RJ
Good luck with your build
RJ
Thanks RJ The 800 was for the optics, a 6 br is definently an option that i'm considering. You mentioned Jim Briggs, have you dealt with the prefits? I'm just asking I am considering that route, for a barrel. Do you or anyone have stock opinions I checked out Richards microfit and talked to a guy from H.S. Precision. I like H.S. stocks and inquired on the benchrest style, any feedback on either would be nice to hear. The barrels from Northland go Shilen or Mcgowen? Thank you RJ for your reply greatly appreciated!!!!! 
I bought a Mcgowen Varmint 8 twist 28" 6br from Jim last summer. It shoots good, Have some 2" groups at 600yd with it. I bought it for an extra prairie dog gun last year. Barrel cleaned up good from the get go. I can't get this particular one to shoot 105 Amax but it shoots 107smk, 105vld, 95vld all very well. Jim also started selling Criterion barrles as well and they are a division of Krieger that uses button rifling. The prices on these are cheaper than the Shilen or the Mcgowen and I haven't kept on them but initial feedback seemed pretty good.
Jason
Jason
Fireball -
Howdy !
Boy.... your post really hit upon my primary shooting interest of mine !
I like to attend the Western Pennsylvania World Groundhog Shooting Championships. These are held at the Southfork Rifle Range, near Beaverdale, PA. The World Shoot is ususually the last weekend of Sep, every year. They do hold monthly shoots during their annual Summer-long competition, but one can simply attend only those shoots they desire to.
James Peightal' made rilfes used to sweep the championships, until a few years ago. Competition is stiff, and many great shooters/great guns are in attendance. There a a whole host of good gunsmiths right there in PA. Peightal's shop is in Ernest, PA.
The West PA shoot has an " unlimited " ( or custom ) class, and a "factory" class. You CAN register to shoot in BOTH classes, and registration opens in Apr; typically. I have heard that their purse and awarded prizes exceed those of the "Hickory"
In sheer numbers, 6mm and .30 cal rifles are predominent.
Of the "sixes", one is seeing more and more 6 X 47s, and of course; a healthy dose of 6BRs being used. If memory serves, the last Championships shoot I attended there ( 2008 ) a dude campaigning a 6 X 47 won custom class
With the .30s, one will see even the large Magnums being shot, and muzzle brakes abound. There is a sprinkling of .30BR shooters, and they can do well.
It's a healthy climate of innovation, and LOTS of wildcats are being tried/shot.
In Factory. .223s are the most common chambering.
.22-250s are still seen, especially now, with the intro of Lapua brass and the faster rifling twist seen w/ some Savage rifles.
If you are influenced by "equipment lists:, then you'll likely chose/shoot a 6 X 47 for custom class, and a .223 for Factory class. If you think more outside the box, anything is possible.
For either a .224 custom or 6mm custom rifle, I'd go 28" minimum on barrel length; and consider * 29" for the 6mm.
* I say this because my .224 calibre wildcat was a 28" SS
1-8 cut-rifled K & P 5-groove. I went with the bore/groove specs K & P normally provides in .224" calibre.
In hindsight, I could'a gone w/ a 29" for the .224" cal barrel.
Mine was a .224" cal chamber w/ case capacity bewteen that of .22-250... and .220 Swift.
I could have used more vel, or at least... more vel from a 29" would NOT have hurt. Something to think about, when your rifle is a " dual role' " gun.
As a result of my .224" cal experience @ Southfork, I went to use a 6mm for both live varmint and paper matches.
But... that was mostly because my eyes could no longer make out .224" cal holes on paper ( reliably ) @ 300yd, when looking at them w/ a boosted 36X Weaver K36 !! Nobody gets to spot for you while you shoot for record at Southfork.
This makes the use of larger cals/heavier bullets more appealing. In .224" cal, I shot 75" A"-Max. Even the switch from .224" cal to 6mm helped me see more dust being kicked up ( now and again ), which helped me determine where some of my errant shots were landing.
I tried Berger 88s in 6mm twice at Southfork.
My performance at two shoots and then subsequent range testing had me gravitate to use of heavier 6mm bullets, esp 95s and 105s. The max range shot @ Southfork is 500yd.
One can make a dandy 6mm LR gun that can cover both your live varmint/ paper shoot needs....all the way out to 1,000yd.
And, I think that's what you want.
In a 6mm, I'd go 1-8 if you intend to shoot 105s maximium.
A 29" barrel, and whatever bor/groove your custom barrel maker provides. My 29" 6mm is a Broughton SS 1-8
"5C"-rifled Palma taper, that cleans w/o needing to use a brush. It " broke-in " with just one shot !
Here again, I went w/ the bore/groove specs Broughton normally provides in 6mm.
THE most prevalent gun case @ Southfork is the single rifle Plano " Airglide ". When shooting a normal length of pull traditional type stock, the Airglide will accomodate rifles w/ a 29" barrel, and they feature pleanty of verticle space for large turreted /tall mounted scopes.
Night Force is the most common brand of scope in custom class. Not all of us can afford those. My solution was to obtain a Weaver K36, and install a Gene Davis "optical booster " ( priced @ $100 shipped ). The boosted scope works just fine for me, while others say boosters give them optical maladies.
I used a Ken Ferrel 20moa scope base on both the .224" and 6mm rifles, but did not HAVE TO HAVE a tapered base. My wildcat' chamberings had enough case capacity that the chosen VLDs could be put on paper out @ 500yd w/o ever running out of verticle adjustment range on the scope.
And, this was w/ a comparatively skinny 1" tube, not 30mm.
Your thinking on scope adjustment should be in MOA and not so much by using " clicks". You'll be throwing on some verticle as your competition shots range from 100, then 300; and finally 500yd. Things like scope reticle choice and even more so adjustment knob style/design will assume greater importance in you scope selection criterion.
I hope this helps !
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
Howdy !
Boy.... your post really hit upon my primary shooting interest of mine !
I like to attend the Western Pennsylvania World Groundhog Shooting Championships. These are held at the Southfork Rifle Range, near Beaverdale, PA. The World Shoot is ususually the last weekend of Sep, every year. They do hold monthly shoots during their annual Summer-long competition, but one can simply attend only those shoots they desire to.
James Peightal' made rilfes used to sweep the championships, until a few years ago. Competition is stiff, and many great shooters/great guns are in attendance. There a a whole host of good gunsmiths right there in PA. Peightal's shop is in Ernest, PA.
The West PA shoot has an " unlimited " ( or custom ) class, and a "factory" class. You CAN register to shoot in BOTH classes, and registration opens in Apr; typically. I have heard that their purse and awarded prizes exceed those of the "Hickory"
In sheer numbers, 6mm and .30 cal rifles are predominent.
Of the "sixes", one is seeing more and more 6 X 47s, and of course; a healthy dose of 6BRs being used. If memory serves, the last Championships shoot I attended there ( 2008 ) a dude campaigning a 6 X 47 won custom class
With the .30s, one will see even the large Magnums being shot, and muzzle brakes abound. There is a sprinkling of .30BR shooters, and they can do well.
It's a healthy climate of innovation, and LOTS of wildcats are being tried/shot.
In Factory. .223s are the most common chambering.
.22-250s are still seen, especially now, with the intro of Lapua brass and the faster rifling twist seen w/ some Savage rifles.
If you are influenced by "equipment lists:, then you'll likely chose/shoot a 6 X 47 for custom class, and a .223 for Factory class. If you think more outside the box, anything is possible.
For either a .224 custom or 6mm custom rifle, I'd go 28" minimum on barrel length; and consider * 29" for the 6mm.
* I say this because my .224 calibre wildcat was a 28" SS
1-8 cut-rifled K & P 5-groove. I went with the bore/groove specs K & P normally provides in .224" calibre.
In hindsight, I could'a gone w/ a 29" for the .224" cal barrel.
Mine was a .224" cal chamber w/ case capacity bewteen that of .22-250... and .220 Swift.
I could have used more vel, or at least... more vel from a 29" would NOT have hurt. Something to think about, when your rifle is a " dual role' " gun.
As a result of my .224" cal experience @ Southfork, I went to use a 6mm for both live varmint and paper matches.
But... that was mostly because my eyes could no longer make out .224" cal holes on paper ( reliably ) @ 300yd, when looking at them w/ a boosted 36X Weaver K36 !! Nobody gets to spot for you while you shoot for record at Southfork.
This makes the use of larger cals/heavier bullets more appealing. In .224" cal, I shot 75" A"-Max. Even the switch from .224" cal to 6mm helped me see more dust being kicked up ( now and again ), which helped me determine where some of my errant shots were landing.
I tried Berger 88s in 6mm twice at Southfork.
My performance at two shoots and then subsequent range testing had me gravitate to use of heavier 6mm bullets, esp 95s and 105s. The max range shot @ Southfork is 500yd.
One can make a dandy 6mm LR gun that can cover both your live varmint/ paper shoot needs....all the way out to 1,000yd.
And, I think that's what you want.
In a 6mm, I'd go 1-8 if you intend to shoot 105s maximium.
A 29" barrel, and whatever bor/groove your custom barrel maker provides. My 29" 6mm is a Broughton SS 1-8
"5C"-rifled Palma taper, that cleans w/o needing to use a brush. It " broke-in " with just one shot !
Here again, I went w/ the bore/groove specs Broughton normally provides in 6mm.
THE most prevalent gun case @ Southfork is the single rifle Plano " Airglide ". When shooting a normal length of pull traditional type stock, the Airglide will accomodate rifles w/ a 29" barrel, and they feature pleanty of verticle space for large turreted /tall mounted scopes.
Night Force is the most common brand of scope in custom class. Not all of us can afford those. My solution was to obtain a Weaver K36, and install a Gene Davis "optical booster " ( priced @ $100 shipped ). The boosted scope works just fine for me, while others say boosters give them optical maladies.
I used a Ken Ferrel 20moa scope base on both the .224" and 6mm rifles, but did not HAVE TO HAVE a tapered base. My wildcat' chamberings had enough case capacity that the chosen VLDs could be put on paper out @ 500yd w/o ever running out of verticle adjustment range on the scope.
And, this was w/ a comparatively skinny 1" tube, not 30mm.
Your thinking on scope adjustment should be in MOA and not so much by using " clicks". You'll be throwing on some verticle as your competition shots range from 100, then 300; and finally 500yd. Things like scope reticle choice and even more so adjustment knob style/design will assume greater importance in you scope selection criterion.
I hope this helps !
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
Thank you LRPV on your Mcgowen feed back greatly appreciated!! Your barrel you mentioned, which action did you put it on? Also which stock do have? 357 you hit my idea right on the head!!! Ground Hog paper matches and hole diggers!! I have also tossed around the 6x47 also. Any and all feed back and suggestions are appreciated! That's why I made this post for help. Good point on the gun case, base and scope. I live in central Pa west of Harrisburg and live very close to 3 well known gunsmith's less than an hour to any of them, alot of my questions are for myself to have more knowledge when I get this ball rolling, not to be a know it all when I go to get this done. I used to shoot BPCR and really enjoyed it cast my own bullets etc. etc. also learned real quick about mirage and cross wind. Different ball game shooting open sights to using optics. I have numerous rifles that I feel I have shooting quite well 700 Sendaro 300 win mag 700 varm 243 win 700 22-250 vsf and 223 varm and so on. And my baby's 2 Rem 221's. I felt I have reloading pretty well covered but when I start reading about neck bushings and so on I realize a whole new world just opened. But that's when my smith would help with die suggestions and so forth. On these Savage actions I hear about not using the barrel nut and going straight to action is this a benefit. I'm not planning a switch barrel type rifle. I try very hard on my reloading to be on the up an up for casing prep, prim pockets, flash holes, trimming checking cases logging firings on casings. Lapua brass will be my first choice, had a 308 built,(rebarrel bedded) match chamber no turn neck used Lapua brass and fell in love, great stuff. I always figured if a rifle is capable of punching one hole groups I would do my part to make it happen. This will be my first accuracy minded full custom and getting excited about it. Thanks for reply's Fireball
Fireball -
Howdy, again !
Please feel free to ask all the questions you want.
There are plenty of shooters here, qualified to give answers.
You mentioned reloading dies......
I have taken a shine to Hornady " Custom Grade New Dimension " dies.
My Hornady shoulder bump/bushing NS die accepts Wilson bushings.
I have gone exclusively to use of shoulder bump/NS in lieu of doing FL sizing;
when reloading fired brass. I have not had to FL size asccuracy rifle brass for probably over 20yr now. I myself don't shoot a semi-auto, and lack of FL sizing has not presented any problems. 'Course, I also am not shootin' 18 zillion rounds
a year; either.
Hornady's CGND bullet seater is of the " universal " design. You change-out cartridge " sleeves " and bullet seater stems in the same die body, thereby covering a multiple number of different cases/bullets w/o having the excess cost of a bunch of individual seater dies. Hornady's price, quality, and delivery times are all first-rate.
Unless wildcatting brass w/ my Rockchucker press, all my handloading is accomplished using Lee " Hand Presses ". These work great both at home and @ the range. I have had NO trouble in bumping shoulders .001" on fired brass.
Not to worry about having to $$$ a bunch of reloading tools....
" Buy the best, and cry once " !
I still have/use a whole host of Sinclair first-generation reloading tools.
These have been augmented over the years, by additions made to my reloading
goodies as finances permitted.
If you are a big fan of Lapua brass, ( the new ) 6 X 47 and 6 X 250AI would be plausible choices for live groundhog shots out to 1,000yd.
My primary live varmint quarry for many years was NE Indiana
" Soybeanus Digestus ". That changed with a recent move to Oklahoma.
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
Howdy, again !
Please feel free to ask all the questions you want.
There are plenty of shooters here, qualified to give answers.
You mentioned reloading dies......
I have taken a shine to Hornady " Custom Grade New Dimension " dies.
My Hornady shoulder bump/bushing NS die accepts Wilson bushings.
I have gone exclusively to use of shoulder bump/NS in lieu of doing FL sizing;
when reloading fired brass. I have not had to FL size asccuracy rifle brass for probably over 20yr now. I myself don't shoot a semi-auto, and lack of FL sizing has not presented any problems. 'Course, I also am not shootin' 18 zillion rounds
a year; either.
Hornady's CGND bullet seater is of the " universal " design. You change-out cartridge " sleeves " and bullet seater stems in the same die body, thereby covering a multiple number of different cases/bullets w/o having the excess cost of a bunch of individual seater dies. Hornady's price, quality, and delivery times are all first-rate.
Unless wildcatting brass w/ my Rockchucker press, all my handloading is accomplished using Lee " Hand Presses ". These work great both at home and @ the range. I have had NO trouble in bumping shoulders .001" on fired brass.
Not to worry about having to $$$ a bunch of reloading tools....
" Buy the best, and cry once " !
I still have/use a whole host of Sinclair first-generation reloading tools.
These have been augmented over the years, by additions made to my reloading
goodies as finances permitted.
If you are a big fan of Lapua brass, ( the new ) 6 X 47 and 6 X 250AI would be plausible choices for live groundhog shots out to 1,000yd.
My primary live varmint quarry for many years was NE Indiana
" Soybeanus Digestus ". That changed with a recent move to Oklahoma.
Best of luck in your endeavors !
Regards,
357Mag
Not sure which model the action is from. I bought it used as a 243 and it came in a Bell and Carlson Medalist stock. Action is a blued short action staggered feed repeater. I wish I had a LRPV set up in a 6br instead but it is what it is, I don't shoot any competition.
Jason
Jason
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