Stuck on getting stuck...

jlow · Mar 13, 2016

OP, even if you got everything else 100.000% perfect, you still have made a bad mistake not using a manual but using a load off someone’s Youtube video. One of the cardinal rule of reloading is NEVER use a load off the web from someone you don’t know loading for a rifle that is different from yours (which it ALWAYS is). This is a sure fire way to get into trouble. Instead of being confused and frustrated, you should be thankful that your gun did not blow up in your face since your load is obviously too hot.

Take the advice from me and others on this web telling you to get a manual and understand the reason for working up a load before you get hurt.

timeout · Mar 13, 2016

Hi Dave. By all means get a reloading manual and follow it closely. You have so many things going on it is nearly impossible to solve them here. Where are you located? A mentor is what you really need to walk you through the correct process. Good luck on your new endeavor and hopefully you can find someone nearby to help.

Barlow · Mar 13, 2016

I have help a few guys get started in handloading. I tell them all, get a manual, Hornady, Lyman, Speer whatever, read it through, set it aside for a week and read it again (the loading procedure section primarily). IMO you will absorb it better. I also recommend as other have, get a FL die and follow Boyds advise. Keep us informed. Barlow

Preacher · Mar 13, 2016

Also do not ever forget that the BOOK SPECS may not be even close to your chamber dimensions...
You need to figure that out for yourself.......
The primers falling out at the second firing is going to hurt you one of these days, if you don't pay attention to stuff like that....

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

jonbearman said:
Dave for Gods sake get the new Lyman reloading manual as it is a good teaching tool before you get hurt or blinded or worse. You need to read it and familiarize yourself with proper loading technique before you proceed. This is a no joke hobby. I watcghed my cousin who thought he knew what he was doing blow up a M1 Garand worth a lot of money because of high primers(not seated right) and that is only one story as I can tell you other horror storys. Spend 25.00 and get the manual and learn before you dive right in. Please take my advice sir as I want you to enjoy the fun of reloading without accidents. Your mechanical scale, do you know how to level it? I am absolutely not trying to be condescending with any of my advice, just trying to put it in perspective.

No worries and no offense taken. This has turned out to be a lot harder than I thought it would be. I will get the Lyman manual. Thanks for the sincere advice.

dedogs · Mar 13, 2016

Dave, You have received excellent advice here on getting a re-loading manual, reading it and re-reading it until you understand ALL the factors REQUIRED for making SAFE hand-loads. If you want to play on "you-tube" look up blown -up guns. That should impress upon you the fact that in the re-loading process we are making "little BOMBS" and we must be sure of what we are doing in order to remain safe, not just for you but for the people around you. O.K. enough with the butt chewing. The trim length you should be looking for is 1.900. That should keep you safe. As /VH pointed out it is very important to champher and de-burr the case mouths when you are done trimming. Your load according to Sierra is approaching max and if you are not weighing on an accurate scale there is no telling where you are. Also the numbers on most powder dispensers are meaningless when it comes to accuracy of charge thrown--they actually are measuring volume not actual weight. That's the reason for an accurate scale and trickle charger.
The primers falling out of your fired hand-loads indicates you have way too much pressure in your rifle. That brass is now useless and should be discarded after crushing the necks. Hopefully you have not set the lugs on your bolt back by firing these over-pressure loads. Cooper makes a beautiful, not inexpensive rifle and should be cared for. Boyd Allen brought up a good point about your cleaning of the barrel. Would you share your method and frequency with us? dedogs

jlow · Mar 13, 2016

Dave Armento said:
No worries and no offense taken. This has turned out to be a lot harder than I thought it would be. I will get the Lyman manual. Thanks for the sincere advice.

OP, the way to take advice from the web is to first get a solid foundation of what is accepted as safe in terms of the load you are thinking about. You get that from the bullet and powder manufacturer. Once you have that information, you can explore the edge of the load by going slowly in terms of increasing your powder charge weight and looking for danger signs like flat primers, ejector swipes, and yes when you are really getting close to the edge hard to unlock bolts (not that you really want to go there..). Armed with this information, you can then look at what other people say works for them and figure out who knows what they are doing and who does not. Jumping in without this background you are basically going in blind and trusting your life to someone you don't know - none of us should do this.

Webster · Mar 13, 2016

Dave Armento said:
Thanks everyone who has replied so far. I don't know where I would be without the advice of people with experience in this area. Just to add a little more info..... I am using 35 grains of Hodgdon 4895 and Sierra Match Kin 52 grain boat tail bullets. I am seating them at the max overall length that is recommended by the Lee Collet necksizing die manual that came with the product...this material is recommending a max overall length of 2.35 inches, which is what I am seating them at. Also, the brass is once-fired Hornaday V-Max brass. Not sure if that helps solve the mystery......thanks again for the advice....

The Sierra manual gives 35.3 grains as max load with 4895 and the Match King 52, 31.7 stating load. If your bullet is touching or close to the rifling it will raise the pressure. People have commented on sizing problems but it looks like you may be about 2 grains to high in powder???? Sounds like you may have started at over max load for your rifle. Whatever the cause it's definitely very high pressure. Start at about 32 grains and work up in .3 grain increments looking for signs of pressure (hard extraction, flat primers and ejector marks on the case head. Firing at a few at 32 grains should tell you if it's powder or something else. Can you close the bolt easily on one of your reloaded cartridges. If so I would still suspect to much powder.

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

Webster said:
The Sierra manual gives 35.3 grains as max load with 4895 and the Match King 52, 31.7 stating load. If your bullet is touching or close to the rifling it will raise the pressure. People have commented on sizing problems but it looks like you may be about 2 grains to high in powder???? Sounds like you may have started at over max load for your rifle. Whatever the cause it's definitely very high pressure. Start at about 32 grains and work up in .3 grain increments looking for signs of pressure (hard extraction, flat primers and ejector marks on the case head. Firing at a few at 32 grains should tell you if it's powder or something else. Can you close the bolt easily on one of your reloaded cartridges. If so I would still suspect to much powder.

excellent advice. The bolt closed easily on the reload cartridges. I am starting to think I overloaded the powder. Will do some testing with 32 grains and get back to you.....thanks for the help....

ireload2 · Mar 13, 2016

Dave
This is NOT casual stuff. This process is not forgiving at all.
Count how many posts you made before you finally mentioned that the primer fell out.
When a primer falls out danger is imminent!!!!!!!! You can lose your vision and fingers.
If you have not studied enough to recognize that kind of hazard you should consider whether you should continue at all.

I know you said that you would get a Lyman manual. But what if it has a typo in the load data? You need several sources of data to use for a sanity check.
You should consider youtube a potential hazard. There are people posting youtube videos that might have less knowledge than you.

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

dedogs said:
Dave, You have received excellent advice here on getting a re-loading manual, reading it and re-reading it until you understand ALL the factors REQUIRED for making SAFE hand-loads. If you want to play on "you-tube" look up blown -up guns. That should impress upon you the fact that in the re-loading process we are making "little BOMBS" and we must be sure of what we are doing in order to remain safe, not just for you but for the people around you. O.K. enough with the butt chewing. The trim length you should be looking for is 1.900. That should keep you safe. As V/h pointed out it is very important to champher and de-burr the case mouths when you are done trimming. Your load according to Sierra is approaching max and if you are not weighing on an accurate scale there is no telling where you are. Also the numbers on most powder dispensers are meaningless when it comes to accuracy of charge thrown--they actually are measuring volume not actual weight. That's the reason for an accurate scale and trickle charger.
The primers falling out of your fired hand-loads indicates you have way too much pressure in your rifle. That brass is now useless and should be discarded after crushing the necks. Hopefully you have not set the lugs on your bolt back by firing these over-pressure loads. Cooper makes a beautiful, not inexpensive rifle and should be cared for. Boyd Allen brought up a good point about your cleaning of the barrel. Would you share your method and frequency with us? dedogs

With the help of other posts, I think I have learned a solid cleaning process. First I run a couple of wet patches though the barrel with Barnes CR-10. Then I use a wire brush coated with some Barnes CR-10 and make a few passes with that. Then I run a dry patch through again to remove the Barnes CR-10 from the barrel, then I run 2-3 patches coated with Kroil to remove the rest of the Barnes and coat with barrel with a non-corrosive oil, and then I run one dry patch through. Hopefully this is removing all brass and carbon residue, without damaging the barrel. I don't have a bore scope yet, but when I hold the bore up the a light, it looks very shiny. If you have any adjustments or corrections, please let me know. Thanks again to everyone for their help....I feel like such a rookie and I am now realizing the seriousness of this hobby.....

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

One last question for the group, now that I am staring to get the importance of sizing the brass and carefully measuring the powder for each and every round...... I am wondering if one way for me to eliminate some of the variable is to buy brand new brass and then just carefully install the primer, carefully measure the powder (at the lower limit recommended in the manual), and then seat the bullet at the maximum overall length recommended in my Lee Collet manual (2.350 inches).

So here are my questions about this idea....
Is it a generally good strategy?
Do I need to trim the new brass, since it is new and has never been fired? I am assuming it is already the right size...

The general idea here is for me to remove as many variable that are screwing me up as possible, such as sizing, trimming, etc.

Let me know if this idea will make the process a little easier and safer.....thanks

M-61 · Mar 13, 2016

Quote from the OP:
"So the question is this - what would be the reason for the brass getting stuck in the chamber after firing my reload rounds? Do I need to trim down the length more, or neck size them deeper, or what? I am very confused and frustrated. Has this ever happened to other members? I thought I was being really really meticulous about my reloading process. Maybe I should just purchase fresh unfired brass and quit trying to recondition my used brass...."
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above is from your original post.
Keeping that in mind, your very FIRST step is the purchase of a reloading manual. Confusion and frustration will, after reading the manual, start to disappear.
Before any trimming, weighing,etc., read the manual.
In your last post you used the word 'assuming'. That will also disappear.
I know little about "You tube".....however I would not be inclined to do something I saw on the internet.
Which brings me to this site. It also is the Internet.......HOWEVER help is only an asking away.....and I do not recall any unsafe postings here that either were not blasted immediately or removed completely.
Read your NEW manual and type away if you do not understand something. There are a ton of knowledgeable folks willing to help here.
Did I mention to get a manual?

deepwater · Mar 13, 2016

The Lyman Reloading Handbook is a good manual for you. It has great photos about the various processes.
I do not like manuals that are set up with a 3 ring binder. It sounds good but: it is difficult to get from one page to another; it is near impossible to read in bed; and not something to have in the bathroom.

The powder manufacturers manuals usually have data for different brands of bullets and their own powders.
The bullet manufacturers manuals usually are the reverse of the powder manuals as above.

Purchase 2 or 3 manuals.
One thing that is good online are the bullet and powder manufacturers data. It is user friendly. Use to supplement you printed manuals.

dedogs · Mar 13, 2016

Dave, I don't like to use wire brushes of any kind through my rifles (bronze brushes will give you a false positive with chemicals like CR-10 and others meant to eliminate copper fouling). A good quality stiff nylon brush works just fine. Also in my experience CR-10 does not chase carbon very well (but it's hell on copper!) I like JB Bore paste for thorough cleaning followed by JB Bore Polish. Follow the instructions carefully and you will have nice clean SMOOTH barrels. There will be others here who disagree with this method but this method has worked for me for years. Glad to here you are getting a re-loading manual. For what it's worth most of the shooters on this forum have many and consult them frequently. BE SAFE! dedogs

Webster · Mar 13, 2016

The maximum OAL in the Lee Collet manual is just so it will fit in the magazine. I would think I would want less than this in case this length gets me so close to the rifling that it raises pressure. Your still wandering. Just full length resize one or two good cases with the dies properly adjusted and make the OAL about 0.020" shorter than what you have been doing. Load 32 gr of your powder and shoot it. Hopefully the cases won't stick in the chamber any more. If firing one case with bad results don't shoot any more just to empty them or see if they also give bad results. Wear safety glasses when shooting. You should throw out any cases you shot with 35.3 grs of powder for safety reasons. It might help if you could determine the OAL for your bullet to touch the rifling. If you still have problems it gets more complicated. When your sorting things out you should not load more than a few cases at a time in case there is a problem so you don't ruin more cases of have to dissasemble cartridges that show poor results on the target.

CaptainMal · Mar 13, 2016

Do you have an experienced reloader near you that can visit?

So many are oh, so helpful but we are not measuring the headspace. Did you and do you even have the tools to do that?

What is the jump to contact when you have those bullets seated? Here again I bet you may not have the tools to measure that.

A primer fell out??? As stated - STOP! See if there is someone at a local club that can do a house call. Something is amuck.

'Freak · Mar 13, 2016

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

'Freak said:
Whilst awaiting arrival of your new Lyman, Sierra, Speer, Nosler, Hornady, Berger, and/or etc., loading manuals, there’s a plenty reading right here for helping to make folk into better informed ammo crafters.
http://www.accurateshooter.com/category/technical-articles/
&&
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/complete-precision-case-prep/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/primers-and-pressure-analysis/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/reloading-advice-from-sinclair-intl/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bore-cleaning-methods-and-materials/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/gear-reviews/hornady-oal-gauge-and-comparator/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/o-rings-on-dies-may-reduce-run-out/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/fl-bushing-dies-vs-honed-fl-dies/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/case-head-separation-cause-diagnosis/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/how-to-load-more-concentric-ammo/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/reloading/expander-mandrels-and-neck-tension/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/die-issues-when-bumping-shoulders/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/full-length-bushing-dies-and-die-conversions/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/bolt-maintenance-methods-materials/
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/how-to-use-press-mounted-bullet-pullers/
&
http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/22-250/
http://accurateshooter.net/Blog/sierra22-250loads.pdf
&
http://www.accurateshooter.com/technical-articles/cartridgediagrams/
&& There’s plenty more …

Thank you sir.... helpful and constructive. It is a steep learning curve. Way steeper than I expected.....

Dave Armento · Mar 13, 2016

CaptainMal said:
Do you have an experienced reloader near you that can visit?

So many are oh, so helpful but we are not measuring the headspace. Did you and do you even have the tools to do that?

What is the jump to contact when you have those bullets seated? Here again I bet you may not have the tools to measure that.

A primer fell out??? As stated - STOP! See if there is someone at a local club that can do a house call. Something is amuck.

Thanks - I am going to find a local person near Atlanta who is an experienced reloader who can help me out. The whole trimming issue and headspacing and overall length issue is very confusing. Different Youtube videos tell you different things. I am going to get a real reloaders manual and find an old pro in the Atlanta area. and get a lesson. It is almost iimpossible to learn this online..... thanks for the advice and patience....

Stuck on getting stuck...

jlow

timeout

Barlow

Preacher

Dave Armento

dedogs

jlow

Webster

Dave Armento

ireload2

Dave Armento

Dave Armento

M-61

"Quis Separabit"

deepwater

dedogs

Webster

CaptainMal

'Freak

Dave Armento

Dave Armento

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