Stubborn Brass

[bigedp51]

Why indeed?
Simple.
I would just buy the proper height required, so I would accumulate a selection to choose from as needed, rather than permanently alter an existing one that I might very well need in its original spec in future.

I have two "STANDARD LENGTH" No.3 RCBS shell holders, one of them has been lapped and is now .003 shorter. This shortened shell holder is ONLY used on my .270 because with a standard length shell holder the bolt is hard to close on my full length resized cases.

The point of my previous link about the Delta L factor is American and European standards do not always match. If your die is making hard contact with your die and your 6.5x55 do not fit in your chamber then lapping the shell holder is the simplest way to fix your problem. And I was told to do this in the 1974 by RCBS right from the horses mouth, end of story.

If you buy the Hornady gauge as suggested, you can measure new unfired cases and see how much shorter in cartridge headspace they are compared to your full length resized cases. Then you will know WHY you need to shorten the shell holder because your actual measurements will be right in front of you in black and white.

Sometimes new cases can be "VERY" short.



And a fired case can be longer than SAAMI normal specifications. Below, the amount the case is sticking above the gauge is how much longer a military .303 chamber is on a Enfield rifle.



Now guess what happens when you full length resize a .303 British case in a an American SAAMI full length resizing die.

 

[fguffey]

Redding does not lower the deck height, they increase the deck height in increments of .002” up to .010", then there are shims, the shims and or the Redding shell holders are not necessary, nice, but not necessary.

F. Guffey

 

[bigedp51]

fguffey

You remind me of the primitive camper who likes to start fires by rubbing two sticks together. When I go camping I take along a Bic lighter, lighter fluid, dryer lint, steel wool, a nine volt battery, a siphon hose to suck gas out of my cars gas tank and a Coleman gas stove. You see I "WILL" have fire even when it rains and you will be shivering in your tent eating a cold meal.

What is necessary here is for the OP to measure his cases and find the problem. The majority of reloaders simply have a press and a set of dies. The majority of reloaders do not have headspace gauges to measure their chambers and reloading dies.

You go ahead and rub your two sticks together, "BUT" bigedp51 will always have fire to cook with and stay warm.

With the the shell holders below the words flexing press become meaningless, and when making hard contact with the die they also help with case alignment. With the die contacting the shell holder your cartridge headspace is more uniform with less variations in length. And a magic feeler gauge with a gap between the shell hold and die will not solve these problems, they will just make make it worse.

 

[alamo_308]

There is nothing to "digest", I just checked three dies using GO gauges and feeler gauges.

Sorry, ...I did not intend to confuse the issue by using the metaphorical term "digest," ...meaning to thoughtfully consider (the information).
Of course there is information here to do exactly that, i.e., thoughtfully consider.
That's all.

 

[bigedp51]

There is nothing to "digest", I just checked three dies using GO gauges and feeler gauges.

Sorry, ...I did not intend to confuse the issue by using the metaphorical term "digest," ...meaning to thoughtfully consider (the information).
Of course there is information here to do exactly that, i.e., thoughtfully consider.
That's all.

And metaphorically speaking I didn't want you to even taste let alone "digest" some of the baloney that was served here. In forums you must watch your diet and select from the correct food groups or else you can get dysentery, metaphorically speaking.

 

[Barlow]

I don't know where all this shellholder making the case body longer comes from, I did not say anything of the kind. Take the new case you said fit in your chamber, load a reasonable load and seat a bullet and pull the trigger. When you extract it, measure it with the above mentioned Hornady headspace tool and you will have the exact headspace measurement of your rifle's chamber. This fired case should chamber in your rifle, maybe a little resistance, maybe not. Your sizing die has to push the shoulder back anywhere from .001-.004 from the fired case dimension. If it does not with proper adjustments listed by numerous people above you should, mill, grind, file, rub, turn, sand, polish, cut, snip, remove, sweep, or any other term you can think of to shorten the height of the shellholder so the case may enter the die far enough to contact the shoulder of the die and set the case shoulder back far enough to chamber the case. That as I see it is the long and short of it. Barlow

 

[Clod-NC]

Hi Alamo hi all

To answer your question about the Hornady headspace set that will help you solve this as Biged judiciously remarked,check Sinclair,they have it as a Kit with all the necessary parts ans bushings for virtually any caliber you might want to check and control;the good news is"it's not even expensive"....So order one and you won't ever regret it,of course you must also have a caliper(check Sinclair for that too....). Hope it helps.
Of course,you will find this tool at Midway,Graf & Sons,Midsouth,and many others,it's yours to choose the dealer you like best.

 

[alamo_308]

Thanks all.
Already had calipers. Kit is on the way from MidwayUSA; ETA tomorrow. It will be a busy weekend coming up.

 

[bigedp51]

I don't know where all this shellholder making the case body longer comes from, I did not say anything of the kind. Barlow

Barlow, no one said you did, the posting got sidetracked with headspace gauges inside resizing dies, magic feeler gauges and knowing his cartridge headspace settings before the press handle even moves. This person must even have a magic case shoulder rebound calculator. :

 

[Old Navy]

You need to be able to mesure the case from the base to the datum line (shoulder). Hornady makes this tool and it fastens on to your mic. with an insert that fits on the shoulder. My suggestion is to raise the ram with the proper shellholder in place to the top of its stroke, screw your full length sizing die down til it makes full snug contact with the shell holder, ( I assume you have a single stage press). Lube a case and run it up into the die, try it in your rifle. If it does not chamber, screw your sizing die down 1/4 turn so that the handle will go over center when you push it down. Lube the case again and run it into the die, make sure the handle goes all the way down and goes over center. Try the case in your rifle. If not, screw the die down a scooch (tech term) and try again. DO NOT go to far and bend the press or ram, common sense will tell you when you are going to far. If it still will not chamber, you will have to shave a few thousands off the base of the die, and then it should work. A buddy just had the same problem with a Browning A Bolt 7 Mag, and his cured it. Work slowly and carefully, once all the slack is out of the press linkage, shell holder slot etc. it will bottom out hard, do not use enough force to wreck stuff. You need to set the shoulder back far enough so that it will chamber. Barlow

This post is right on. Later! Frank

 

[Barlow]

I forgot an important piece of the puzzle. Always reseat the primer in the fired case so you get an accurate mesurement. Barlow

 

[bigedp51]

I forgot an important piece of the puzzle. Always reseat the primer in the fired case so you get an accurate mesurement. Barlow

At low chamber pressures the cartridge will headspace on the primer, therefore the amount the primer is protruding is also part of total chamber length/headspace. Example, my 30-30 primers are always protruding due to lower chamber pressures.



On higher pressure loads chamber pressure forces the primer to the rear and as pressure increases the brass will stretch to meet the bolt face.



If the OP is using starting loads and working up to a maximum load the primers will protrude in the beginning and be part of the total headspace reading with the Hornady gauge.

One way to check for excess head clearance (headspace) or for over resizing your cases is to start a spent primer in the primer pocket and chamber this empty test case. The amount the primer is protruding is your head clearance or the "air space" between the rear of the case and the bolt face.
(Poor mans headspace gauge)



Now chamber the case and the amount the primer is protruding is head clearance.



Excess head clearance will cause case head seperations.