Strange Article - Am Hunter

[nosualc]

Sure they might make noise and run around in a circle some. That's adds to the entertainment which ends when they lay right there forever.

Enjoying an animal's suffering aint cool in my book. Maybe you don't like them, but coyotes just do what god made them to do. They deserve a quick humane death as much as any creature.

Sorry for the thread hijack, K22. A .223 is more than enough for a coyote given proper placement and bullets. The author is a knucklehead.

-nosualc

Normally I would agree with you but wolves and coyotes don't count as far as I am concerned, have you ever had to club a cow to death with a rock because you had nothing else with you and the reason you had to club her to death was because while she was giving birth coyotes ate the calf as it was coming out and then ate on into her but not killing her just eat on her while she was down giving birth and once full just leave,.....Well I have on more then one occasion, I now never go anywhere with out a gun but I care not where I hit them at!! deer/elk and other animals yes but not a coyote or wolf!!!
Wayne.

My beef is not in the extermination of the pest (with great prejudice), but rather the enjoyment from its suffering. This is perverse, IMO.

Nature is indeed cruel, but we don't need to be.

-nosualc

 

[CaptainMal]

Heh - Most of enjoy hunting and the shot. Without that there's little to it.

If the animal is not DOA and moving around, I shoot again. That's all part of the fun and shooting animals while hunting is fun.

Ever go prairie dog or ground hunting? You go for the fun of making the shot.

Now there's a whole cadre of "distorted animal lovers" out there. I and most here love animals. We also love them in our sights. That's why we share our thoughts here. Hope those "strange others" are not here.

 

[bozo699]

Sure they might make noise and run around in a circle some. That's adds to the entertainment which ends when they lay right there forever.

Enjoying an animal's suffering aint cool in my book. Maybe you don't like them, but coyotes just do what god made them to do. They deserve a quick humane death as much as any creature.

Sorry for the thread hijack, K22. A .223 is more than enough for a coyote given proper placement and bullets. The author is a knucklehead.

-nosualc

Normally I would agree with you but wolves and coyotes don't count as far as I am concerned, have you ever had to club a cow to death with a rock because you had nothing else with you and the reason you had to club her to death was because while she was giving birth coyotes ate the calf as it was coming out and then ate on into her but not killing her just eat on her while she was down giving birth and once full just leave,.....Well I have on more then one occasion, I now never go anywhere with out a gun but I care not where I hit them at!! deer/elk and other animals yes but not a coyote or wolf!!!
Wayne.

My beef is not in the extermination of the pest (with great prejudice), but rather the enjoyment from its suffering. This is perverse, IMO.

Nature is indeed cruel, but we don't need to be.

-nosualc

Well sir mine has been killed by the vermin and I do try to kill them with one shot but if I make a bad shot it doesn't bother me like it would on a majestic creature like a elk or deer,...I would like to know one thing what does with great prejudice mean?
Wayne.

 

[nosualc]

Well sir mine has been killed by the vermin and I do try to kill them with one shot but if I make a bad shot it doesn't bother me like it would on a majestic creature like a elk or deer,...I would like to know one thing what does with great prejudice mean?
Wayne.

Great Prejudice in this context means "with great vigor". I'm saying I think they should be hunted and hunted hard. I have wolf hunted in the past. I hope to be going coyote hunting in the next few weeks. I think you should kill every 'yote you see. If I had cattle, I'd get darn serious about killing them.

My beef is with thinking its suffering as entertaining. I guess I think even a Coyote deserves an effort on our part for a quick humane death.

-nosualc

 

[people]

FMJ bullets do work in a 223. If you shoot them fast enough they do come apart. I have not shoot many dogs with a FMJ but they do kill also. If you are using steel copper washed FMJ then they ice pick like there is no tomorrow.

 

[K22]

The author is indeed, Mr. Bryce M. Towsely who has indeed hunted all over the world. He doesn't say which bullet he was using that gave him all the trouble.

Even though he's no doubt shot a lot more coyotes that I'll ever shoot, I found his remarks so bizarre based on my experience with the 223 that I decided to poll the forum members to determine their experiences.

 

[BigDMT]

The author is indeed, Mr. Bryce M. Towsely who has indeed hunted all over the world. He doesn't say which bullet he was using that gave him all the trouble.

Even though he's no doubt shot a lot more coyotes that I'll ever shoot, I found his remarks so bizarre based on my experience with the 223 that I decided to poll the forum members to determine their experiences.

My best guess is that he was either using FMJ bullets, or simply not placing the shot correctly. What else could it be? We all know how well the 223 works on yotes.


Maybe he was shooting them at 1000+ yards : ;D

 

[JRS]

Sounds like Mr. Towsley needs to learn how to shoot so he can hit the kill zone

Coyotes can't get away from a 17 HMR if the shot is placed correctly and within reasonable distances of it's capability.

Shot a good size Red Fox with a 17HMR at 125 yards once. Placed it right between the eyes, and with one shot, he was dead before he hit the ground No way is a 223 too light for coyotes, but a 22-250 is definitely better for long range work on them.

I read nothing in the quote that says the 223 is too light. The quote says he believes its on the ragged edge.

 

[bozo699]

Sounds like Mr. Towsley needs to learn how to shoot so he can hit the kill zone

Coyotes can't get away from a 17 HMR if the shot is placed correctly and within reasonable distances of it's capability.

Shot a good size Red Fox with a 17HMR at 125 yards once. Placed it right between the eyes, and with one shot, he was dead before he hit the ground No way is a 223 too light for coyotes, but a 22-250 is definitely better for long range work on them.

I read nothing in the quote that says the 223 is too light. The quote says he believes its on the ragged edge.

Yes and one has to read the whole article to get the whole gist of it, Bryce actually said he has hunted more with the .223 then any other cartridge, the name of the article was not" black riflesand brown dogs" it actually is titled
" The Best AR-15 Calibers For Predator Hunting" and it discusses several calibers, good article as per usual with Mr. Towsley.
Wayne.

P.s here is just the part about the .223,...

.223 Remington
Everybody thinks this is the cartridge Eugene Stoner had in mind when he developed the AR design, but it’s not. He first developed the rifle in the 1950s for the .308 Winchester and called it the AR-10. He thought it would be the next U.S. battle rifle, but the military picked the M-14 instead.
Soon enough the military wanted to move in a different direction with smaller ammo, so he reduced the dimensions on the gun to work with the 5.56X45mm cartridge and called that rifle the AR-15. The military adopted it, named the cartridge the 5.56 NATO and well, as they say the rest is history.
Remington brought out a commercial version of the cartridge, named the .223 Remington. The two are not interchangeable. A rifle chambered for 5.56 NATO can use .223 ammunition, but a rifle chambered for .223 Remington should not be fired with 5.56 NATO ammo. It will chamber and fire, but it is not safe. So check the stamp on the barrel of your AR to see which chamber you have.
The .223 Remington is one of the most popular centerfire cartridges on the face of the earth and is certainly the most popular choice for coyote hunters using ARs. It’s also the one that gives me the most trouble. I have had more coyotes that were hit with a .223 run off than with any other cartridge. Why? With small bullets velocity is very important to instantaneous kills on coyotes. The .223 is right on the ragged edge of “not enough” to start with, and with the shorter barrels favored on ARs the velocity drops even more.
[size=10pt]To be fair, I hunt more with a .223 than all the other cartridges combined, so some of it is simply playing the odds. But not all of it. The [size=10pt][size=12pt]fix?[/size] Pick a longer barrel to maximize its velocity. Then choose high-velocty ammo with good bullets[/size][/size].
During a recent hunt in Oklahoma I used Hornady Superformance ammo with a 52-grain V-Max bullet at a catalog velocity of 3465 fps. I chronographed this load in an AR with a 20-inch barrel and the bullet was moving at 3333 fps: still screaming. Superformance ammo uses a blend of progressive burning powders that is formulated to the cartridge and bullet weight to extract the most velocity possible. I have tested Superformance in a wide range of rifles and cartridges and it is always extremely accurate. This .223 load has averaged sub-MOA in every rifle I have tested, and the V-Max is one of the best varmint bullets ever made.

 

[people]

I have had more coyotes that were hit with a .223 run off than with any other cartridge. Why? With small bullets velocity is very important to instantaneous kills on coyotes. The .223 is right on the ragged edge of “not enough” to start with, and with the shorter barrels favored on ARs the velocity drops even more.

 

[people]

Granted when you do it right the 300WM really works.

 

[JRS]

Thank you Wayne That sounds more like the Bryce I met!

 

[K22]

bozo699

No big deal but I don't know what issue of the American Hunter you're reading but the article in question from Bryce M. Townsely is indeed entitled, "Black Rifles and Brown Dogs", found on page 50 in the January 2013 issue.

Secondly, yes he dances around the 223 issue, talks about using the 223 a lot, praises the performance of 53 vmax bullets and superperformance powder, etc. but his remarks about the caliber being "on the ragged edge of not enough to start with", puzzled me for such an experience hunter as himself because it's contrary to my, albeit more limited, experience with the cartridge for coyotes. He also makes an issue about "picking a longer barrel to maximize velocity" in order to "fix" the problem.

I've used a Rem Model 7, which has a 20" barrel with 50 grain Noslers - believe me - this will put down a coyote without any problems with correct shot placement, correct shot placement being no different than any other critter.

Anyway - this is what I love about this forum - so many idea - so much fun to debate - have a nice day and good luck with those "Brown Dogs".

 

[BigDMT]

I have had more coyotes that were hit with a .223 run off than with any other cartridge. Why? With small bullets velocity is very important to instantaneous kills on coyotes. The .223 is right on the ragged edge of “not enough” to start with, and with the shorter barrels favored on ARs the velocity drops even more.


It sounds like he takes my outlook on coyote hunting. Any hit is a good hit. A bad hit with my 300WM is just as bad as the same shot with a 223.

Exactly! A bad shot is a bad shot, no matter what caliber you are using. Your statement holds true for ANY animal.

I also guarantee that if I hit a coyote in the head or kill zone with any caliber capable of penetrating such thin skin, muscle, and bone it will be DEAD.

The only reason you will ever have coyotes run away from you is because you did not hit them with a killing shot. Almost any animal will do the same with a poor shot. Learn to take good shots and make hits accurately and trust me, that problem will surely cease to exist

 

[kelbro]

'Good' shots on a coyote are not a given. I have killed hundreds of the vermin. Seldom, if ever, see them when they are not moving at least at a trot. The only time that I have ever had a shot at a still one was the moment that they realized that the call wasn't real and they were ready to bolt.

I hate to see any animal suffer and always try for a one-shot kill but it just doesn't always happen that way.

 

[BigDMT]

'Good' shots on a coyote are not a given. I have killed hundreds of the vermin. Seldom, if ever, see them when they are not moving at least at a trot. The only time that I have ever had a shot at a still one was the moment that they realized that the call wasn't real and they were ready to bolt.

Ain't that the truth They've never been considered stupid animals that's for sure. They sure as heck don't stand still around here either. I wonder if I could take my TV remote along with me and hit "PAUSE" when I see a coyote..... : ;D