Stock bedding question…

[Judd]

The last two stocks I’ve bedded I pulled the pillars out ”popping” it out after it had dried 24 hours. These were both Mesa Precision stocks (AG Composite made) that come with them pre-installed. They are knurled pillars that appear just pressed into the stock. I’m using Devcon and outside of this pillar issue I’m very pleased with the lack of air voids and smoothness of the bedding. I am using way more than needed and clean up after setting and having to trim quite a bit after pulling but I’m alright with that based upon the end product I’m getting.

After the first one I thought it was just the fact that the interior of the pillar had rings or is threaded so I drilled this one out to remove those rings. Then I put more clear shoe polish inside the actual pillar thinking this would solve my issues and added even more polish to the bolts and threads.

The good news is, I didn’t pull both out but only the one so I did make some progress…just not quite there yet. My question is…I use a headless bolts and I’m not removing them before popping the stock out of the bedding. Is this the root of my issues? I didn’t think that would create my issue but I’m starting to think that might be what is trying to hold it all together and causing me to pull a pillar loose. There is a fair amount (not a ton but enough i have to drill the pillar out) of epoxy inside the pillar.

Your thoughts…besides I’m a dumb donkey

 

[tobnpr]

Strangest thing I've heard in a while. They're knurled, so they should stay put.
I always use blue painters' tape on the headless studs, for a close fit inside the pillars that precludes the epoxy from getting inside from the get-go. I also break them loose with a turn or two once the Devcon has partially set but leave them in place overnight.

Stupid question- but...
You mentioned release agent inside the pillars- you are putting release agent on the TOP of the pillars (Q-tip) and also on the studs, correct?

 

[Edd]

My question is…I use a headless bolts and I’m not removing them before popping the stock out of the bedding. Is this the root of my issues?

Yes it is.

 

[hoz53]

The last two stocks I’ve bedded I pulled the pillars out ”popping” it out after it had dried 24 hours. These were both Mesa Precision stocks (AG Composite made) that come with them pre-installed. They are knurled pillars that appear just pressed into the stock. I’m using Devcon and outside of this pillar issue I’m very pleased with the lack of air voids and smoothness of the bedding. I am using way more than needed and clean up after setting and having to trim quite a bit after pulling but I’m alright with that based upon the end product I’m getting.

After the first one I thought it was just the fact that the interior of the pillar had rings or is threaded so I drilled this one out to remove those rings. Then I put more clear shoe polish inside the actual pillar thinking this would solve my issues and added even more polish to the bolts and threads.

The good news is, I didn’t pull both out but only the one so I did make some progress…just not quite there yet. My question is…I use a headless bolts and I’m not removing them before popping the stock out of the bedding. Is this the root of my issues? I didn’t think that would create my issue but I’m starting to think that might be what is trying to hold it all together and causing me to pull a pillar loose. There is a fair amount (not a ton but enough i have to drill the pillar out) of epoxy inside the pillar.

Your thoughts…besides I’m a dumb donkey

yeah like Edd said- i use pieces of all thread rod and turn them out with a battery drill before trying to pop the action out of the stock.

 

[Judd]

Strangest thing I've heard in a while. They're knurled, so they should stay put.
I always use blue painters' tape on the headless studs, for a close fit inside the pillars that precludes the epoxy from getting inside from the get-go. I also break them loose with a turn or two once the Devcon has partially set but leave them in place overnight.

Stupid question- but...
You mentioned release agent inside the pillars- you are putting release agent on the TOP of the pillars (Q-tip) and also on the studs, correct?

Not on top of the pillars but definitely inside them and the studs themselves…I’d really like to have a thin layer of mud on top or at minimum the low spots filled.

Thanks on the suggestion of putting blue tape to help fill some of the void around my headless screw.

Thanks Edd and hoz53…it was about the only thing I could think of that was causing me the fight to pull the stock off.

 

[AlNyhus]

I've posted this many times, but this always works. Make the inside of the pillars 5/16" and use these Delrin sleeves that are 5/16" O.D. and 1/4" I.D. Glue the sleeves into the pillars, coat the inside of the sleeves, pillars and the outside of the guide pins with release agent. Then bed it.

Crack the guide pins loose after 10-12 hrs. but don't remove them. When you're ready to remove the barrelled action, take a hammer and give each guide pin a good rap. Don't use the barrel like a hillbilly with a jack handle and lever it back and forth until it comes out, That's a sure fire way to tweak the bedding you just did, particularly the tang and recoil lug mortise area. Straight up is what you want to do.

Remove the sleeves with a drill and then run a 5/16" drill bit through the pillars to remove any residual bedding compound. The sleeves both center the guide pins in the pillars and allow for clearance around the action screws.

How any stock mfg. can in good conscience just press knurled pillars into a stock with no compound around them makes me shake my head......

 

[Judd]

WOW, great info Al. Thanks for sharing, all of that makes perfect sense. Where do you source the sleeves? That sounds like an excellent way to do it and so straightforward this jack handled hillbilly could even do it

 

[Dusty Stevens]

I pull the screws out before i pull the action.

 

[AlNyhus]

I pull the screws out before i pull the action.

Absolutely!

 

[AlNyhus]

WOW, great info Al. Thanks for sharing, all of that makes perfect sense. Where do you source the sleeves? That sounds like an excellent way to do it and so straightforward this jack handled hillbilly could even do it

The sleeves are available on Amazon for just a few bucks. My local Ace hardware store also carries the exact Hillman #58074 (also available in white) so that's where I get mine. I used to make them...time consuming.

Amazon.com: The Hillman Group 58074 0.312 O.D. Nylon Flanged Bushing, Number-1/4, 30-Pack , Black : Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: The Hillman Group 58074 0.312 O.D. Nylon Flanged Bushing, Number-1/4, 30-Pack , Black : Industrial & Scientific

www.amazon.com

For guide pins, use a long bolt and cut the threaded section short enough that you only have the non-threaded shank portion going through the sleeves. Put a good taper on the bottom of the guide pins so it helps center the pins as they enter the sleeve. I use a Gel Super Glue to glue them in...works better than a runny Super Glue.

Many years ago, I made a fixture that pulls the receiver straight up out of the stock after bedding. It's simple, effective and easy to make with common tools...no mill or lathe needed.

Keep us posted on your progress! -Al

 

[Edd]

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[Judd]

I’ll let y’all know how the next one goes. I came with a hunch and a question and left with a lot more info than I asked. Thanks for the assistance!

 

[mikecockcroft]

Judd
Is your headless bolt a full thread? If so get a long bolt and cut the threads off leaving just enough to thread in action and the rest of the bolt is slick. I also turn the screws after 12 hours or so just enough that i know they are not stuck. I take them out completely before I try to remove the action. I have wrapped the screws with blue painters tape to get a slip fit in pillars and have also made custom screws machined to fit the pillar. I do like the idea of the delrin bushing, going to give that a try.
I use shoe polish too but I spray the screws with Brownells release agent to be sure it gets into the threads.
I have broken the bedding in front of the recoil lug getting too rambunctious removing the action. Travis will verify that. I have seen several pictures of the action removal jig and I think I will make one.
Hope to see you at Dennys match.

 

[tobnpr]

Still puzzling to me as to why the pillars are popping loose.
Only thing that might cause it from what I can see is not removing the studs prior, and pulling the action out at an angle causing the studs to bind on the inside of the pillars which could break them loose.

Anywho...
An action/receiver jack is invaluable- you want to pull straight up to avoid any chance of cracking/damaging the bedding, and popping the action free with a jig like this will do it.

 

[Judd]

It’s the combo of too much epoxy and trying to leave the screws in and pull all that over them. as I was unscrewing one of the screws it hit me and I suspected that might be the culprit. Y’all confirmed it, thank you!

Mike - it’s got quite a bit more thread than it needs. I could make a set pretty easily and I will but I can assure you every thread had release agent in it…I had to put it on a wire wheel to get all the paste out of the threads

The bedding jack idea is one of those, why didn’t I think about that tools.

 

[Edd]

Threads with a release agent on them still have a mechanical lock. If you use tubing on the studs, it doesn't matter how many threads you have.

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[AlNyhus]

The receiver 'jack' I use will run about $5 for parts and can be made with tools that everyone has in their tool box. I made it 25 years ago with a hacksaw, drill and a tap. Have used it on Remingtons, Savages, Winchesters, Sakos....anything where the ejection port is open across the top.

Good shootin'. -Al

 

[Judd]

MUCH better results. Dumping the full length threaded headless screws and completely removing the studs before attempting to pop it free were the changes. THANK YOU!!!!

 

[Carl S]

I make my own pillars,aluminium or stainless.i machine grooves in them with a parting off tool.i make my own pins machine just enough thread on them to go into action.make the pillars a snugish fit on them.macine the nuts..a longish bar with a chamfer on them to locate into trigger guard holes,when tightened up on pins that centralises everything.release agent on pins and inside of pillars.slacken nuts slightly after a few hour's.remove pins completely when cured and pop action out of stock drill out pillars so they have clearance on action screws.no problem.it works for me.

 

[Will Henry]

I'm just going to say it. If the pillars are pulling out of the stock, they are not well installed in the first place. In other words, the stock quality sux. A properly installed pillar should have to be machined out of the stock. WH