I tried to shoot the kindler gold 30's out of my fireball again with no luck. I decide to check the stability using bergers calculator and I come up with 1.43 . Its suppose to be a 8.5 twist but I come up with 8.7. Is this why I cant get them to group under 1 inch?? I found one charge of 8208 that put them in about .6 thats the best Ive got out of I dont know how many combinations.