Splain me this: Grinch VS Dasher

[Eric Leonard]

I started the year with 150 pieces of Lapua 220 cases formed to 6 PPC,, when loading for the last match I only had 125 cases that would still hold a primer,,,

best I can add I shot somewhere around 4,000 rounds of PPC,,

 

[nakneker]

The unaltered Grendel case is a very good one and a good one to wildcat. It's essentially a formed ppc case with the shoulder moved .070" forward. The Lapua brass is wonderful and has small flash holes and uses small primers. I've been shooting it necked up to 30 cal for years now. I call it a 30 Major. At one time, the name Grendel was protected and could not be used.

I'm ordering a 6mm version very soon and will likely do the same with a 22 version. Yes, it's been done already but mostly in gas guns. I want to see what not having to use a long drop tube and a slow pour is like, yet using hot 6ppc loads, or similar.

The only down side is that the neck is shorter than a ppc or a br neck. --Mike

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/06/now-thats-accuracy-mike-ezells-tack-driving-30-major/

That link is about the 30 major. Is that you?

 

[Tim Singleton]

As Tim says below not many short range guys anneal. However, most of the of the guys I work with anneal. It's kind of hard to hide the big Benchsource annealer in the camper. So it's catching on.

I prefer annealing after every firering with my PPC!

Bart

My wife calls my camper the tic tac box. I'd burn myself up with a
benchsource annealer in it. LoL
I would have to do the amp thing

Bart
Are you going to Piedmont this Saturday?

 

[BartsBullets]

My wife calls my camper the tic tac box. I'd burn myself up with a
benchsource annealer in it. LoL
I would have to do the amp thing

Bart
Are you going to Piedmont this Saturday?

Benchsource is great! Set it outside and you can pass it off as a grill.

AMP is slow and you'll blow all the circuits In the campground!

No Piedmont for me! Too busy building a house!

 

[swd]

Benchsource is great! Set it outside and you can pass it off as a grill.

Toothpicks with wieners in each case?

 

[Tim Singleton]

Toothpicks with wieners in each case?

Tooth pics with wieners might attract the Trout!

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2014/06/now-thats-accuracy-mike-ezells-tack-driving-30-major/

That link is about the 30 major. Is that you?

Yes.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

You mention occasional annealing, speaking short range only at what frequency do most anneal? Or do they just get new brass?

Obviously, it depends who you ask. I feel that about every 5 firings is plenty.

 

[ttfreestyle]

Obviously, it depends who you ask. I feel that about every 5 firings is plenty.

Geez, I thought I was done buying equipment

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Is the Grinch different than the 6mm ar or turbo version? Are you having custom dies made?

 

[BartsBullets]

Is the Grinch different than the 6mm ar or turbo version? Are you having custom dies made?

Alex

Whidden is making full length dies for the Grinch. JGS has the reamers. For seaters we are reaming out Wilson PPC dies.

Bart

 

[stacy]

I am sure the Grinch will shoot also,,but all I shoot is 100/200 yard UBR Score,,I think I am gonna shoot the straight 6BR this year so I can always have good fresh brass without all the hassle,,I believe my biggest screw up last year was shooting the same 150 pieces of brass all year,,

WOULD U NOT BENIFIT WITH A 30 BR FOR SCORE MATCHES

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

WOULD U NOT BENIFIT WITH A 30 BR FOR SCORE MATCHES

mr.big is in my area. The score shooting that has really taken over in this area is UBR and it's caliber neutral by means of different targets for a 22 vs. 6mm vs. 30 cal. There's no distinct advantage given by the target relative to caliber. FWIW, this is achieved by simply having proportionately sized dots and scoring rings. Works great!

 

[BartsBullets]

mr.big is in my area. The score shooting that has really taken over in this area is UBR and it's caliber neutral by means of different targets for a 22 vs. 6mm vs. 30 cal. There's no distinct advantage given by the target relative to caliber. FWIW, this is achieved by simply having proportionately sized dots and scoring rings. Works great!

Mike,

Actually When I think about it the 30BR could be the ticket for Mr Big. His quest is to find something that's accurate and stays in tune. The 30BR is accurate and it stays in tune.

Bart

 

[stacy]

mr.big is in my area. The score shooting that has really taken over in this area is UBR and it's caliber neutral by means of different targets for a 22 vs. 6mm vs. 30 cal. There's no distinct advantage given by the target relative to caliber. FWIW, this is achieved by simply having proportionately sized dots and scoring rings. Works great!

UNDERSTAND

 

[Cool Tool]

Idaho

Here's a pic comparison.

What I see as far as case capacity looking at pics the 6mm dasher shortened up is looking more desireable more an more.

 

[Eric Leonard]

Mike,

Actually When I think about it the 30BR could be the ticket for Mr Big. His quest is to find something that's accurate and stays in tune. The 30BR is accurate and it stays in tune.

Bart

Bart you may very well be right,,,it is to late for me this year and if I dont get where I want to be this year I plan to try a 30 BR or the 30 Major in 2018,,we will see how it goes,,

 

[JohnMill]

Geez, I thought I was done buying equipment

Thilly boy!!

 

[RickB]

if you have a bolt that will take the PPC and BR cases what would be the advantage of the 6 Grinch over using 6BR brass with no fireforming,,just turn necks and go,,

It would depend on what your intended use might be. The Grinch is reported to be giving the 6 PPC a run for the money in BR competition, particularly 200 yards and beyond.

If you are talking F-Class (open) the 6 BR is capable of handling heavier bullets than the Grinch although it will be more wind sensitive than the popular 7mm cartridges. The BR does not require case forming like the Grinch. It’s fairly easy to get an accurate load worked up.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

It would depend on what your intended use might be. The Grinch is reported to be giving the 6 PPC a run for the money in BR competition, particularly 200 yards and beyond.

If you are talking F-Class (open) the 6 BR is capable of handling heavier bullets than the Grinch although it will be more wind sensitive than the popular 7mm cartridges. The BR does not require case forming like the Grinch. It’s fairly easy to get an accurate load worked up.

I've been a big fan of a straight 6 Grendel for a good number of years nor. I don't think there's a thing wrong with the Grinch variation except there is very little improvement of a straight grendel but that small change come at the expense of custom dies. Ballistically and in terms of accuracy...just toss a coin. The straight 6mm Grendel is the easy button though. It's a .070 long 6 PPC. Nothing more and nothing less.

I believe it's a bit better than a BR at short range and equal to a PPC. At longer range, it has a tad more horsepower but still a little short of what I think is ideal for beyond 600. Although, very competitive with anything out to 600. No magic here but it's pretty much right between a ppc and a br in capacity and uses a ppc bolt face. I like it very much for the short range game. Enough so, I don't see myself going back to a ppc but it's more because of how easy it is. Just neck it down, dump powder, seat bullets and shoot it if you run a no turn neck, which I went back to pretty exclusively in 2019. I simply can't say that my results have been better either way so no turn is equal, IME. If there's anything to fuss about, the neck is essentially .070 shorter than a br or ppc but that's just not enough to be a deal breaker in any regard..to me.

The ARC family is being touted as a family of long range cartridges but I think that's because they far surpass the 223 in an AR based rifle. Otherwise, they too are extremely similar and I think they shine brightest at short range in bolt rifles. Big difference in max pressures and like a ppc or br, they all tend to like pressure to do their best. I'd shoot one to 600 and would not feel out gunned most days. In fact, I'd feel like it might well be the most accurate cartridge there is out to there in lighter conditions.

It's fun and easy for anyone that wants to try something a bit different or has a dedicated ppc bolt face rifle. For short range, I just use hot ppc loads and tune from there. The Lapua brass has been every bit as good as 220 R brass IME.

Testing is how we know stuff so get to work. Knowing what I do about the Grendel vs Grinch...I don't know of any reason to go the Grinch route though. Who knows? Bart and Billy have tested the Grinch a good bit as has Greg King and a few others. It has a good but limited record under its belt but I'd stay with the straight variation for sure at short range and I just don't see much or any velocity gain by going grinch for longer yardages either. The straight 6 Grendel is essentially a 6 PPC without the fire forming.